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The following graph shows why American men and women use dating sites and applications. Respondents were permitted to select as many reasons as they wanted to:
Dating apps and websites probably aren’t as debauched as you think they are, especially if you came of age before the internet swallowed up all social interactions. Not all sites are the same, of course, but the predominant reason both men and women use the services in general is to find a monogamous partner.
As for empirically assessing the validity of stereotypes, well, here are the things men are more driven by than women:
– Casual sex
– Non-exclusive romantic partners (it’s easier for men to have strong physical and emotional affection for multiple women simultaneously than it is for women to have for multiple men at the same time)
– Cheating on a current partner
And here are the things women are more enticed by than men:
– Forming platonic relationships
– Finding an exclusive romantic partner
– Boosting one’s own self-esteem (women’s profiles generate a lot more interest than men’s do)
– Being entertained by perusing through profiles (women go for the articles, men go to see articles removed)
– To test out the application (this is the only one that doesn’t seem to fit–maybe it’s psychological, a way of telling oneself “I’m just here to take a look, I’m not necessarily into this objectifying”)
– To matchmake
English
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Korean
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Spanish
Swedish
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Vietnamese
Internet dating is the most common way people met their significant other, since the 2010s.
Here in Japan, Tinder is famously used by girls looking for free English practice or just to get attention from a foreigner, causing no end of grief to horny white foreigners.
I found some ways around this but I'll keep them to myself.Replies: @nebulafox
More people who get married now met via the internet but internet dating doesn’t seem to have increased the number of marriages overall. There may be a lot of people who would normally try to meet other ways who have now decided to direct more of their time and energy into internet dating, with poor results so far. Some of the problems for men trying it is more men than women on these sites leading to poor male to female ratios, inflated female egos from all the male attention they get on these sites, and a lack of knowledge of the backgrounds or the moral character of anyone on these sites leading to picks being made for more superficial reasons like how someone looks in a photo.
I only tried internet dating for a short time. Unlike most guys, it seemed to work a little better for me than other methods but my situation was unusual. First, meeting women at work wasn’t an option. For some unknown reason my employer always hired people much older than me. Also, I work for a government agency where a lot of the hiring is done for affirmative action reasons so the few women my age were often unintelligent and not worth dating. Second, I had a introverted personality and had a lot of solitary hobbies like reading books so I didn’t have a big social network to use to meet women. Third, I lived in a large urban area where there were few continuous relationships. For example, after I graduated high school I never ran into any of my classmates ever again. People who live in small towns are more likely to have lifelong acquaintances that may develop over time into more serious relationships.
If anyone is in the same unusual situation I was, I would suggest internet dating. Otherwise, the cost in time and effort probably exceeds any benefits.
It looks like a lot of women will bend their truth to whatever will approximate feminine virtues.
Just because these values are no longer enforced, or even encouraged, by the culture, it doesn’t mean that individuals don’t feel pressured by them.
Self-judgement is a lot more powerful, and insidious, than social judgement.
A majority of female app users freely choose to engage in casual sex. As Tiresias noted, to Hera’s rage, women enjoy sex more than men.
Men who don’t already know this, should ask their female partner for tips. If she doesn’t know this, then pay for her to go to a “female sexual awakening” class.
Women love these, because they work.
In an age when vibrators are sold on the high street, I am astonished that people can convince themselves that women merely like sex as something to trade for romance.
https://www.unz.com/anepigone/sex-influencers/#comment-3527403
Perhaps it’s time to bring back the Matchmaker. I remember computer dating as far back as the 1960s, when computers sought to match profiles.
Unless you’re a very high SMV male, online dating is a waste of time and money. Women have their filters set to filter out all but the highest SMV men and the high SMV men are just players or are looking for a second girlfriend for threesomes with their SO–these ads are all over the place on bumble, most of the female-seeking-female ads are actually this sort of thing, posted by women whose boyfriends/husbands put them up to it.
Don’t waste your time. It’s a vast wasteland. Just get out there in the real world and treat ’em like shit and they’ll yield the pussy. Trust me on that one.
Compare the proliferation of online dating sites with marriage and TFR rates, clearly they don’t work.
"This headache relief pill has done nothing for my indigestion"Replies: @Daniel Williams
And since children are no longer considered (by a very large segment of the population) to be an essential ingredient in a marriage TFR rates are not necessarily all that relevant.
I only tried internet dating for a short time. Unlike most guys, it seemed to work a little better for me than other methods but my situation was unusual. First, meeting women at work wasn't an option. For some unknown reason my employer always hired people much older than me. Also, I work for a government agency where a lot of the hiring is done for affirmative action reasons so the few women my age were often unintelligent and not worth dating. Second, I had a introverted personality and had a lot of solitary hobbies like reading books so I didn't have a big social network to use to meet women. Third, I lived in a large urban area where there were few continuous relationships. For example, after I graduated high school I never ran into any of my classmates ever again. People who live in small towns are more likely to have lifelong acquaintances that may develop over time into more serious relationships.
If anyone is in the same unusual situation I was, I would suggest internet dating. Otherwise, the cost in time and effort probably exceeds any benefits.Replies: @Catdog
None of those are unusual situations.
They’re called “online dating apps”, not “online marriage and fertility apps”. They seem to work fine as sold.
“This headache relief pill has done nothing for my indigestion”
The great mystery is why dating sites still have many more men than women. Those sites allow women to punch far above their weight and they don’t have to put any effort in, while a man has to spend hours a day sending messages out into the void if he wants results. Why haven’t the gender ratios evened out due to the strong incentive/disincentive?
I tried dating sites off and on for ten years and I probably met about five women in real life from it over the entire span. It totally wrecked my self-esteem, even though, looking back on it now with the distance of age, I wasn’t bad looking at all. I ended up meeting my wife the old-fashioned way, at church. She had never used a dating site and never even been on a date before, and yet she was a much higher quality woman than I ever hoped for. And it doesn’t seem like a mere lucky strike because I met several other women in quick sucession through my church network after my wife who might have been good prospects if she hadn’t gotten me first.
So I think guys who are frustrated by online dating should instead focus their efforts on finding the hidden “un-apped” women. What kind of women don’t use dating sites, and where can you meet them?
(But counterexample, I know a nerdy guy who met his wife with his first message on the first day he set up his profile)
That shouldn't be a mystery. Women are not "men with boobs who can have babies".
I met several other women in quick sucession through my church network after my wife who might have been good prospects if she hadn’t gotten me first.
That is an example of preselection. Because your future wife had 'gotten you', you became more attractive to other women.
So I think guys who are frustrated by online dating should instead focus their efforts on finding the hidden “un-apped” women.
Or differentiate between dating sites and marriage match sites.
What kind of women don’t use dating sites, and where can you meet them?
One of my friends met her husband via eHarmony. That's not a dating site.
Meanwhile the same guy told me that the dating apps were full of desperate young men.
Now, I haven't been in the dating pool since college, so I can't speak with personal experience, but looking at this as an outsider, it seems there is a tragic disconnect in the circumstances here.
*I do know that among the Mormons, there is a relative scarcity of marriage-age men (because men have higher rate of apostasy), and there is something of a silent, but serious competition for men among marriage-age women.Yes! For that matter, perhaps the men should also go "un-apped," no? Get off the social media, I say. Social media es el diablo!
For example, I've spent most of my time on OKC trolling stupid western European girls (which was a thing back then.) I remember telling a German girl that she should keep safe from the muslim invaders politicians were inviting into her country. She responded by calling me ignorant and letting me know she let some of those things live in her apartment. I contacted her after the Cologne thing. She seemed to have abandoned her account.
Back to dating, I found more eligible women via facebook than I did through popular dating apps. Around the same time, I also got to visit a lot of pharmacies for my job. It struck me how much more attractive the younger pharmacists generally were compared to your average dating site crop. At least where I'm from, people on dating sites seem a notch bellow the general population.
Orthographic alliteration! That’s a new one.
You may be correct, but you have to be careful with statistics on marriage rates. In a society in which long-term cohabitation without marriage is socially acceptable official marriage rates are not necessarily meaningful. You’d have to know whether long-term committed monogamous relationships, with or without marriage, are actually less common than in the past.
And since children are no longer considered (by a very large segment of the population) to be an essential ingredient in a marriage TFR rates are not necessarily all that relevant.
White women want their student loans extinguished.
White women want to get back every penny they ever paid for student loans plus a 6 percent per year surplus to cover lost opportunity costs.
White women want AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.
White women want the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) and they want it now!
The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) will pay each American who has all blood ancestry born in colonial America or the USA before 1924 a cool ten thousand dollars a month. The US Treasury and the Federal Reserve Bank shall work together to conjure up the cash out of thin air, just like the ruling class is doing now.
White women want an IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM now!
White women want ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS deported immediately.
White women want the foreigners and their foreigner spawn to be thrown the Hell out of the USA using citizenship revocations and the like.
White women want the population of the USA to get back to 220 million like it was in 1978. There 330 million or more crowded and jammed into the USA now.
White women know that mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration are destroying the USA and other European Christian nations and they want the foreigners to be gone.
White women want the WHITE CORE AMERICAN faction to dislodge the mass immigration fanatic faction of the Republican Party.
White women want good schools, affordable housing, good wages, cultural cohesion, peace and love.
White women know that mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration increases housing costs, lowers wages, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals, destroys habitat for wildlife, causes urban and suburban sprawl, creates multicultural mayhem and brings infectious diseases and terrorism to their nations.
White women want short guys over 50 who are bald and have stinky feet and still have some winter paunch, are uncommunicative — before coffee — and then perhaps over-communicative after coffee, have the Irish Curse, like to get drunk and sing Van Morrison songs, make crummy jokes and are lousy and inconsiderate in the sack.
Long time to get to the punchline on that comment!
Heat Wave In New England Just About Over — Drink Less Water And Less Lemonade and More Ale!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Hj7bp38f8Replies: @anon
“The matchmaker” exists on many sites. This post of Epigone’s is about dating sites, including hookups like Tinder. The two categories share elements, but are different.
I know several couples who met via things like Eharmony, ChristianMingle, etc. They are all still married, some have children. I also know people who met in bars, that wasn’t unusual prior to 2020.
The great mystery is why dating sites still have many more men than women.
That shouldn’t be a mystery. Women are not “men with boobs who can have babies”.
I met several other women in quick sucession through my church network after my wife who might have been good prospects if she hadn’t gotten me first.
That is an example of preselection. Because your future wife had ‘gotten you’, you became more attractive to other women.
So I think guys who are frustrated by online dating should instead focus their efforts on finding the hidden “un-apped” women.
Or differentiate between dating sites and marriage match sites.
What kind of women don’t use dating sites, and where can you meet them?
One of my friends met her husband via eHarmony. That’s not a dating site.
Yeah, church has an even more imbalanced gender ratio than online dating (at least among eligible singles), and it’s skewed in the opposite direction.
As for why women aren’t on online dating, I think women in our society just don’t go after men nearly to the degree men go after women. A woman saying, “I *need* a man!” is viewed as somewhat gauche nowadays, while in yesteryear it might have been as obvious and non-controversial a statement for a maiden to make as “My car *needs* gas.”
Instead, men are viewed as more of a “nice to have”. “I’d *like* a man. And I’d *like* a coffee maker that also does espresso.”
Men, for one, aren’t really given this message that finding a mate is unimportant. And two, even if we were, it’s not in our nature to listen to such things as much as women do.
Also a fashion statement, sort of like a Prada bag.
For 95% of men, what you want is irrelevant. If you don’t take action into your own hands, prove yourself, and have a clear, realistic notion of what you can have, you’ll be alone for life: it’s really that simple. Combine that with social atomization and the increasing marginalization of traditional avenues to meet potential mates, above all else the workplace or through friends, and you get the online dating situation.
(I’ve noticed that women tend to have as hard a time grasping this reality as men do with the notion of feeling physically vulnerable or preyed upon. It’s like a person freezing in a tundra and a person dying in the desert trying to understand each other.)
BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with what others here have said. I wish I could go back and tell my younger self to not bother with the apps, or at the very least make them a marginal sideshow.
And I don't think she's happy about that fact, at all. She clearly delights at the sight of our children and wants some of her own. But I think she has been trained to convince herself to try to be content with solitude. While I don't think many men have been trained this way.
Now, unlike many men, she could easily find sex by way of Tinder. But that's small consolation, and the truth is that you can be pretty slutty on Tinder and still very alone.Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
"This headache relief pill has done nothing for my indigestion"Replies: @Daniel Williams
Until very recently, dating was generally understood as a prelude to marriage and children.
Until very recently in human history, there was no such thing as "dating".Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
Why did you write this statement?
One major terminology improvement could be getting rid of the word dating and replacing it with “courtship process to find future spouse” or “finding someone to be friends with and have sex with”.
That ambiguity is useful to too many people to have much chance of going away.
“What kind of women don’t use dating sites, and where can you meet them?”
There is a large sewing- and knitting-supplies store near my home. I went there once, and noticed that the women shopping (and working) there were extremely appealing. I was smitten. You could not hang out there extensively. But I can imagine short-duration plans that might work. Wear a blazer. Of course. If you disagree, and think your lycra bike suit would be better, this plan is not for you.
Backup plans involve Special-education and kindergarten teachers.
I don’t think this situation is entirely different for women though. I know plenty of women that are alone for life. Just this past Sunday we had a church picnic and one of my wife’s friends was hanging out with us — probably alone for life. Cute girl too, and easy to talk to, but almost 40 and hasn’t been on a date in many years.
And I don’t think she’s happy about that fact, at all. She clearly delights at the sight of our children and wants some of her own. But I think she has been trained to convince herself to try to be content with solitude. While I don’t think many men have been trained this way.
Now, unlike many men, she could easily find sex by way of Tinder. But that’s small consolation, and the truth is that you can be pretty slutty on Tinder and still very alone.
Men who are alone can hire prostitutes and women who are alone can pick up men somewhere, but most want to be loved.Replies: @nebulafox
I work with a 60 year old overweight lady. Her husband dumped her after 30+ years of marriage. She created an online dating profile on a couple of different apps. In real life men don’t look at her much less flirt with her but on the dating apps she is a superstar. She has so many men contacting her she can’t keep up with them all. Her main criticism is how many younger men in their 20s and early 30s contact her with desperate messages like “Do you want to cuddle?, I need to be cuddled”. She tapped into a massive wave of male loneliness.
If she is getting that much response, imagine how many messages a younger attractive woman is getting. The rise of dating sites has not been good for the majority of single men.
One thing I will say about messages: some men spam them, contact every single woman, and see what sticks. Zero women do this. I didn't do this per se, but when I tried the mobile apps, I swiped on every single woman without looking and only evaluated them if they matched with me.
So you can't necessarily judge anything by messages; you need to go by real-world contacts.
My mother actually decided to try online dating in her late 60s, after a few years mourning my father. I was skeptical of how far she would get (though she does take very good care of herself), but she actually met a very decent guy who was a few years older, financially sound (but not rich), and also in good shape. She eventually decided she'd rather be alone though, mainly because she couldn't handle his family drama with his ex-wife and kids.
I'm told that the deck is stacked in favor of a man like him, that he would be going for women who were at least 10+ years younger, but that's not what happened here. Not sure if he preferred a woman closer in age, or if the deck really isn't stacked that heavily in favor of older men because even though women outnumber men at that age, a lot of widows/divorcees have decided they don't care about men anymore.
Mom never mentioned any much younger guys contacting her like that though, and I think she would have.Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
“take action into your own hands”
A good start: You never know where, or when. Rashida Jones famously said, “Anything is possible in the perfect blazer.” So, wear the blazer almost everywhere you go. Not one of those funky blazers that are short in the trunk and short in the sleeves. A traditional blazer. A travel blazer works well because it will not wrinkle. $200. Navy color goes with anything, and says “I am traditional, not wild.”
There is a large sewing- and knitting-supplies store near my home. I went there once, and noticed that the women shopping (and working) there were extremely appealing. I was smitten. You could not hang out there extensively. But I can imagine short-duration plans that might work. Wear a blazer. Of course. If you disagree, and think your lycra bike suit would be better, this plan is not for you.
Backup plans involve Special-education and kindergarten teachers.Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
“Lycra bike suit” is the worst, but how old are you, and where do you live, that you think a “blazer” is the look?
A good start: You never know where, or when. Rashida Jones famously said, “Anything is possible in the perfect blazer.” So, wear the blazer almost everywhere you go. Not one of those funky blazers that are short in the trunk and short in the sleeves. A traditional blazer. A travel blazer works well because it will not wrinkle. $200. Navy color goes with anything, and says “I am traditional, not wild.”Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
She was talking about her “girl boss” get-up.
Ah, the good old days when I met my wife the old-fashioned way (in a bar)!
Now, drill down on specific genres of sites, e.g. Grindr.
That’s interesting.
One thing I will say about messages: some men spam them, contact every single woman, and see what sticks. Zero women do this. I didn’t do this per se, but when I tried the mobile apps, I swiped on every single woman without looking and only evaluated them if they matched with me.
So you can’t necessarily judge anything by messages; you need to go by real-world contacts.
My mother actually decided to try online dating in her late 60s, after a few years mourning my father. I was skeptical of how far she would get (though she does take very good care of herself), but she actually met a very decent guy who was a few years older, financially sound (but not rich), and also in good shape. She eventually decided she’d rather be alone though, mainly because she couldn’t handle his family drama with his ex-wife and kids.
I’m told that the deck is stacked in favor of a man like him, that he would be going for women who were at least 10+ years younger, but that’s not what happened here. Not sure if he preferred a woman closer in age, or if the deck really isn’t stacked that heavily in favor of older men because even though women outnumber men at that age, a lot of widows/divorcees have decided they don’t care about men anymore.
Mom never mentioned any much younger guys contacting her like that though, and I think she would have.
Okay, fair point, I should not be geographically categorical about blazer-signalling. But, clothing choice does send a message, and can be useful to avoid mistakes and hurt feelings. At the gym (remember gyms?) I always wore an old US Coast Guard shirt. Some guys wore shirts with obscene, angry, or bizarre slogans. To each his own. Free country. (So far.) Women who smiled at me and said Hi never had tats or piercings or green hair. I am in S. Calif., but a traditional, non-crazy, responsible, no-rap-sheet fellow in your non-blazer-ville should consider whatever the local equivalent is, to try to signal those qualities.
Until very recently, dating was generally understood as a prelude to marriage and children.
Until very recently in human history, there was no such thing as “dating”.
And I don't think she's happy about that fact, at all. She clearly delights at the sight of our children and wants some of her own. But I think she has been trained to convince herself to try to be content with solitude. While I don't think many men have been trained this way.
Now, unlike many men, she could easily find sex by way of Tinder. But that's small consolation, and the truth is that you can be pretty slutty on Tinder and still very alone.Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Women tend to be more sociable than men and are better able to form and maintain close friendships and family relationships. Men, in our society at least, tend to be more dependent on their girlfriends/wives and family for companionship.
Men who are alone can hire prostitutes and women who are alone can pick up men somewhere, but most want to be loved.
One thing I will say about messages: some men spam them, contact every single woman, and see what sticks. Zero women do this. I didn't do this per se, but when I tried the mobile apps, I swiped on every single woman without looking and only evaluated them if they matched with me.
So you can't necessarily judge anything by messages; you need to go by real-world contacts.
My mother actually decided to try online dating in her late 60s, after a few years mourning my father. I was skeptical of how far she would get (though she does take very good care of herself), but she actually met a very decent guy who was a few years older, financially sound (but not rich), and also in good shape. She eventually decided she'd rather be alone though, mainly because she couldn't handle his family drama with his ex-wife and kids.
I'm told that the deck is stacked in favor of a man like him, that he would be going for women who were at least 10+ years younger, but that's not what happened here. Not sure if he preferred a woman closer in age, or if the deck really isn't stacked that heavily in favor of older men because even though women outnumber men at that age, a lot of widows/divorcees have decided they don't care about men anymore.
Mom never mentioned any much younger guys contacting her like that though, and I think she would have.Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Middle-aged and elderly divorcees and widows have told me that they’re not interested in anything more than a casual relationship, if that. They have their friends, family and activities and say, “I have my kids. I don’t need another one.” An elderly friend was widowed and an old widowered boyfriend looked her up. “He’s looking for a nurse. It’s one thing to take care of a husband that you’ve been married to for 50 years.” Another friend asked if it was worth it to marry in her 60s, have 10 good years and 5 bad. She concluded that it wasn’t worth it.
The only problem I have found with dating recently is that many older people, including women, have turned into sedentary couch potatoes. My last girlfriend wanted to buy a house way out in the country. When I complained that we couldn't go anywhere being so far out from the city she asked why do we need to go anywhere and why couldn't we just stay home all the time. At 64, I'm still doing a lot of things much younger people do like taking four mile hikes at state parks. Certainly there must be some active women around so I just have to find them.Replies: @Twinkie
A younger acquaintance once told me that the local evangelical mega-church was full of young (and young-ish) women dressed to the hilt looking for husband material.*
Meanwhile the same guy told me that the dating apps were full of desperate young men.
Now, I haven’t been in the dating pool since college, so I can’t speak with personal experience, but looking at this as an outsider, it seems there is a tragic disconnect in the circumstances here.
*I do know that among the Mormons, there is a relative scarcity of marriage-age men (because men have higher rate of apostasy), and there is something of a silent, but serious competition for men among marriage-age women.
Yes! For that matter, perhaps the men should also go “un-apped,” no? Get off the social media, I say. Social media es el diablo!
I don’t think you are wrong. The standard office worker/techie uniform these days seem to be khakis and polo shirt. Frankly, it looks a bit dumpy. A well-fitted suit, regardless of price, or even just a sport coat (doesn’t have to be a blazer) makes a young man stand out from the crowd.
Accessorise with a briefcase too!
https://i.imgur.com/5gXzh6U.pngReplies: @Twinkie
Until very recently in human history, there was no such thing as "dating".Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
Contraception is to dating as mobile phones are to dating apps.
Funny. Taking it seriously as I knew how to with my level of social skills at the time, I went into my first day at work with a suit, tie, and briefcase, and largely kept to that dress code until I was fired. Looking back at it, I believe my co-workers took me for an eccentric.
Right now, I can’t afford a new suit. It’s possible that’ll change soon. It’s also possible it won’t. Luckily, women are conditioned to have low expectations with men and grooming, at least in my neck of the woods. Be hygienic, don’t be obese, and don’t dress like a child: you’d be surprised as to how far from the bottom that puts you. Same goes for non-physical stuff. Again, the trick is getting off the apps, which people in my generation are conditioned to rely on due to a mixture of circumstances: COVID has just made this situation worse, naturally.
As other commentators mentioned, if you believe in God, religion is a surefire path to finding a wife given the gender imbalance there.
I need to ask. Was it obvious that I was joking?
Men who are alone can hire prostitutes and women who are alone can pick up men somewhere, but most want to be loved.Replies: @nebulafox
I think women care more about being loved and emotionally validated. That’s not to say men don’t care about that at all, but a feeling of power and respect are more important, as is, to a certain degree, freedom. Learned helplessness underlines 99% of male depression.
This is why Men Do Not Find Therapy Useful.
Women, especially women with children, are more likely to crave security, which makes it more likely that they vote for the Democrats. The decline of the family unit and larger number of single women is a boon for the Democrats. Men by nature are more likely to favor greater freedom which also entails self-reliance and taking a risk in life.
I'm interested in what you mean by "learned helplessness."Replies: @nebulafox, @V. K. Ovelund
Nope. Sorry.
And yeah, true story. I really, honestly meant well, wanted to make a good impression, but I also liked how it felt on my skin immensely, and I liked the routine. I actually don’t even remember what happened to that suit, though I know I don’t have it anymore. Might have pawned it off, might have lost it, might have left it somewhere at a relatives. Real crapshoot.
So?
Technology gives humanity more positive freedoms.
I am not attaching "good" or "bad" to this. I am just observing.Replies: @anon
I think women care more about being loved and emotionally validated.
Of course, because women are not “men with boobs”.
That’s not to say men don’t care about that at all, but a feeling of power and respect are more important,
Of course, because men are not “defective women”.
These are not new concepts.
“Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.” – Ephesians 5:33
Dating is mostly what happens when people have a choice, as enabled by the technology of contraception, whereas courting and arranged marriages, is mostly what happens when people don’t have a choice.
Technology gives humanity more positive freedoms.
I am not attaching “good” or “bad” to this. I am just observing.
What do you consider to be "the technology of contraception"?Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
The man in the gray flannel suit! A legend from the mythic long ago….
I made this comment here nearly two years ago:
https://www.unz.com/anepigone/sex-influencers/#comment-3527403
https://i.imgur.com/5gXzh6U.pngReplies: @Twinkie
Back when I used to work in an office, I carried a leather briefcase that my wife bought for me. It looked similar to this:
I used to get positive comments from men and women. Random women would come up to me at coffee shops and such and say “That’s a really nice briefcase” with a smile.
Another “accessory” that really seemed to catch ladies’ attention? A puppy.
“Oh, he’s sooooo beautiful! May I pet him?”
Instead, men are viewed as more of a “nice to have”. “I’d *like* a man. And I’d *like* a coffee maker that also does espresso.”
Also a fashion statement, sort of like a Prada bag.
Technology gives humanity more positive freedoms.
I am not attaching "good" or "bad" to this. I am just observing.Replies: @anon
Dating is mostly what happens when people have a choice, as enabled by the technology of contraception, whereas courting and arranged marriages, is mostly what happens when people don’t have a choice.
What do you consider to be “the technology of contraception”?
What do you consider to be "the technology of contraception"?Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
The pill, condoms, apps that measure women’s fertility etc. It improves a little bit every year. More sensitive condoms is a good example.
On the other hand, condoms came to exist in the 16th century, around 1565 or so. Were people "dating" in 1600?Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
Oral contraceptives were first approved for use in the US in 1960. Is it your opinion that no American people were “dating” until after 1960?
On the other hand, condoms came to exist in the 16th century, around 1565 or so. Were people “dating” in 1600?
You are 100% correct. Men value respect then love, women love then respect.
Women, especially women with children, are more likely to crave security, which makes it more likely that they vote for the Democrats. The decline of the family unit and larger number of single women is a boon for the Democrats. Men by nature are more likely to favor greater freedom which also entails self-reliance and taking a risk in life.
I’m interested in what you mean by “learned helplessness.”
Women, especially women with children, are more likely to crave security, which makes it more likely that they vote for the Democrats. The decline of the family unit and larger number of single women is a boon for the Democrats. Men by nature are more likely to favor greater freedom which also entails self-reliance and taking a risk in life.
I'm interested in what you mean by "learned helplessness."Replies: @nebulafox, @V. K. Ovelund
Perceived lack of control and opportunities within over one’s life, and the self-destructive behaviors that result, I guess. I’m not a psychologist, I’m sure others could do better. But that’s why doing something physical and immediate is really, really good therapy for men, especially men who genuinely don’t have a lot of control over other things in their life and haven’t for years. That kind of mental conditioning takes time and effort to break out of, and it’s difficult to do so in that kind of situation and haven’t ever had the practice of mastering your life.
I should note that human beings in general don’t react positively to this. It’s just that for men, who have always been expected to “become” rather than to “be” and innately crave to do so (no matter how much society pretends otherwise), it tends to be a lot more obvious and visibly destructive. Women’s learned helplessness induced depression often revolves around not being desired or loved, which can leave equally bad scars, but they tend to be more subtle.
What is mastering your life?You believe men innately crave to do what?
And you believe that society says they don't?You don't desire to be loved?
You don't think women desire to love?
What do you mean by this "respect" you say men prize over love?
Sorry for the questions, but I have looked at your comments in this area and they come across as confused, and I am sure they are clearer in your head than in writing!
On the other hand, condoms came to exist in the 16th century, around 1565 or so. Were people "dating" in 1600?Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
I anticipated your pedantry by pointing out how technology improves. You should go use a linen condom and tell me how it feels!
Enjoy the carpet burn, whether you’re a man or a woman.
Let's give you another try!Are you saying that no one was involved in "dating" prior to 1960?
Are you claiming that people were "dating" in 1600?Perhaps you should hand this trivial problem over to the more butch entity on your team.In conclusion:
"I have looked at your comments in this area and they come across as confused."Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
What mental conditioning?
What is mastering your life?
You believe men innately crave to do what?
And you believe that society says they don’t?
You don’t desire to be loved?
You don’t think women desire to love?
What do you mean by this “respect” you say men prize over love?
Sorry for the questions, but I have looked at your comments in this area and they come across as confused, and I am sure they are clearer in your head than in writing!
I anticipated your pedantry by pointing out how technology improves.
Deficient reading comprehension and reasoning skills noted.
You should go use a linen condom and tell me how it feels!
Non sequitur.
Let’s give you another try!
Are you saying that no one was involved in “dating” prior to 1960?
Are you claiming that people were “dating” in 1600?
Perhaps you should hand this trivial problem over to the more butch entity on your team.
In conclusion:
“I have looked at your comments in this area and they come across as confused.”
This isn't difficult. Even the volume control on your TV has increments.Replies: @anon
Many older men don’t want to get married again for the same reasons you gave for why older women don’t want to get married again. I’m 64. I think I might actually be interested in remarriage. I was married when young but my wife and me didn’t have much money to do any traveling back then. It might be fun to do some traveling while having someone going along as company. As a practical matter, it also might be cheaper if you can share the cost of things like hotel rooms, rental cars and so on. In addition to travel, just having someone to go to concerts, restaurants etc. with would be nice.
The only problem I have found with dating recently is that many older people, including women, have turned into sedentary couch potatoes. My last girlfriend wanted to buy a house way out in the country. When I complained that we couldn’t go anywhere being so far out from the city she asked why do we need to go anywhere and why couldn’t we just stay home all the time. At 64, I’m still doing a lot of things much younger people do like taking four mile hikes at state parks. Certainly there must be some active women around so I just have to find them.
She and I had a "start-up" marriage (as opposed to a "merger" marriage). She married me when I was penniless and was nothing but potential (the first time my parents visited us in our 1 BR apartment, they told me that we looked like children playing house). I love her so intensely and she is so much a part of me and I of her that I don't think I could ever give the same kind of love, affection, or trust to another woman. And if I couldn't have that kind of a powerful bond, I don't think I'd want another as a wife.
Were she to die before I, I would do my best to raise our children well, hopefully watch them have families of their own, and then I would be happy to see her again, God willing.Replies: @nebulafox
The only problem I have found with dating recently is that many older people, including women, have turned into sedentary couch potatoes. My last girlfriend wanted to buy a house way out in the country. When I complained that we couldn't go anywhere being so far out from the city she asked why do we need to go anywhere and why couldn't we just stay home all the time. At 64, I'm still doing a lot of things much younger people do like taking four mile hikes at state parks. Certainly there must be some active women around so I just have to find them.Replies: @Twinkie
My wife and I are in our early 50’s. We both feel strongly that, were one of us to die, the other would not remarry, but would devote himself or herself to the children.
She and I had a “start-up” marriage (as opposed to a “merger” marriage). She married me when I was penniless and was nothing but potential (the first time my parents visited us in our 1 BR apartment, they told me that we looked like children playing house). I love her so intensely and she is so much a part of me and I of her that I don’t think I could ever give the same kind of love, affection, or trust to another woman. And if I couldn’t have that kind of a powerful bond, I don’t think I’d want another as a wife.
Were she to die before I, I would do my best to raise our children well, hopefully watch them have families of their own, and then I would be happy to see her again, God willing.
Let's give you another try!Are you saying that no one was involved in "dating" prior to 1960?
Are you claiming that people were "dating" in 1600?Perhaps you should hand this trivial problem over to the more butch entity on your team.In conclusion:
"I have looked at your comments in this area and they come across as confused."Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
Obviously there was some dating in 1600 and not only dating in 1960. As contraception improved, it made dating more and more of an attractive option.
This isn’t difficult. Even the volume control on your TV has increments.
What do you suppose "dating" looked like in 1600? A few hours at Ye Olde Socke Hoppe, followed by a trip to Ye Olde Malte Shoppe?
lol
As contraception improved, it made dating more and more of an attractive option.
Why do you equate "dating" with "sexual intercourse"?
That’s a new version of an old pattern. From at least the 80s, white guys had no trouble getting a date in Japan but the conversion rate revealed that 50%+ of the girls were looking to improve their English conversation skills.
I found some ways around this but I’ll keep them to myself.
Women, especially women with children, are more likely to crave security, which makes it more likely that they vote for the Democrats. The decline of the family unit and larger number of single women is a boon for the Democrats. Men by nature are more likely to favor greater freedom which also entails self-reliance and taking a risk in life.
I'm interested in what you mean by "learned helplessness."Replies: @nebulafox, @V. K. Ovelund
Public voting is a peaceful proxy for civil war. The electorate is supposed to be approximately identical with the militia. The only traditional exception regards men who have aged out of the militia.
When democracy counts the votes of a different class of persons than the class whose arms are capable of overthrowing democracy from within, the theme has been lost. I predict that, as we drift from the basic concept, we will simply lose our democracy.
(If one speculates as to the fighting value of militia in view of approaching robotic armies, that out to tell us something about the likelihood of democracy’s survival, unfortunately.)
She and I had a "start-up" marriage (as opposed to a "merger" marriage). She married me when I was penniless and was nothing but potential (the first time my parents visited us in our 1 BR apartment, they told me that we looked like children playing house). I love her so intensely and she is so much a part of me and I of her that I don't think I could ever give the same kind of love, affection, or trust to another woman. And if I couldn't have that kind of a powerful bond, I don't think I'd want another as a wife.
Were she to die before I, I would do my best to raise our children well, hopefully watch them have families of their own, and then I would be happy to see her again, God willing.Replies: @nebulafox
>I love her so intensely and she is so much a part of me and I of her that I don’t think I could ever give the same kind of love, affection, or trust to another woman. And if I couldn’t have that kind of a powerful bond, I don’t think I’d want another as a wife.
Yeah, that’s how my mother feels. I don’t think the idea has even occurred to her. Once that kind of bond has been established with somebody for decades, I’m not sure one *can* have it again with someone else. My grandfather-who, to be fair, was a lot older-just didn’t want to live anymore after his wife died, and he didn’t. He stopped caring-or rather, he just wanted to be with his wife again more than anything the earthly life could offer-and was dead within less than a year.
Human bonds that are really not fungible being treated as such underlies a lot of the problems we’re seeing. You can’t simulate them or compensate for them.
I found some ways around this but I'll keep them to myself.Replies: @nebulafox
It’s the same story in the PRC, with the added subtext that foreign men are great for sexual experimentation. Seeing the behavior of expats who are teachers and whatnot, though, it’s hard to blame the inevitable stereotypes that crop up about losers going wild sexually.
The Chinese government, for its part, does not shy away from the racial profiling they incessantly accuse the US of when it come to threats of espionage. Can you imagine what the reaction would be if some American printed out the equivalent concerning a girlfriend from the PRC with a Senator?
https://www.mic.com/articles/141468/chinese-government-comic-warns-young-women-their-boyfriends-might-be-foreign-spies
In Singapore, you have a few interesting race-dating dynamics:
1) The ethnic Malay minority’s equivalent to “The Talented Tenth” in the US skews heavily female, which means that they are tempted to seek husbands outside their race. Having seen upfront some of the social problems within the Malay community, it’s really hard to blame them. But their religion makes interracial dating difficult. It didn’t used to be this way, but I think the wave of conservative Islamization that took off during the 1980s changed things. So you’ll see a fair amount of sham conversions and marriages, with deeply mixed results to say the least.
2) Singaporean guys who cannot find native wives will do the same thing that men from other developed Asian countries do and find them in less wealthy nations in the region… but with the twist of trying to find someone of their own race. The Han prefer the PRC, but that’s gotten tougher as mainland China has gotten wealthier. The Indians prefer the subcontinent, the Malays, Indonesia. Why this is so, I do not know: maybe living in a multi-ethnic society makes you more conscious of it, whereas in Japan, a half Vietnamese or Filipina kid is just going to be taken as Japanese at face value.
3) Most common interracial marriage combination is Chinese and Indian. The interesting thing was that I noticed a lot more Chinese girls with Indian guys than the other way around. There still seems to be a lot more pressure on Indian ladies to marry another South Asian, though I don’t think it is quite as strong for the Chinese anymore.
4) Forgot to add, “secret second wives” (and in the case of the Malays, sometimes not so secret) in Indonesia are still a thing for wealthy non-Han businessmen. I think the Han used to have this too within the PRC decades ago: it was also common in Hong Kong during the 1980s and 1990s. But the PRC’s gotten too wealthy for that to be affordable for most people. There’s really no practical wealth gap between Shenzhen and Hong Kong anymore, and while the rural countryside in China is still relatively poor, it’s not so poor or disconnected that internal migration is not a more appealing option for young women.
The same thing is beginning to happen in Vietnam, which still exports mail order brides, but the amount of Vietnamese women willing to go off to rural Guangxi in lieu of migrating to Saigon or Hanoi is declining. Seoul or Tokyo is still OK, partly because they saw it on TV…
This mirrors my own experience pretty well. I don’t think I got to meet more than 3 women in the same timespan as Catdog using dating apps. In all fairness, I was extremely picky and didn’t put any serious time into it.
For example, I’ve spent most of my time on OKC trolling stupid western European girls (which was a thing back then.) I remember telling a German girl that she should keep safe from the muslim invaders politicians were inviting into her country. She responded by calling me ignorant and letting me know she let some of those things live in her apartment. I contacted her after the Cologne thing. She seemed to have abandoned her account.
Back to dating, I found more eligible women via facebook than I did through popular dating apps. Around the same time, I also got to visit a lot of pharmacies for my job. It struck me how much more attractive the younger pharmacists generally were compared to your average dating site crop. At least where I’m from, people on dating sites seem a notch bellow the general population.
This isn't difficult. Even the volume control on your TV has increments.Replies: @anon
Obviously there was some dating in 1600 and not only dating in 1960.
What do you suppose “dating” looked like in 1600? A few hours at Ye Olde Socke Hoppe, followed by a trip to Ye Olde Malte Shoppe?
lol
As contraception improved, it made dating more and more of an attractive option.
Why do you equate “dating” with “sexual intercourse”?