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Over the last year, I was doing a lot of driving and thus a lot of listening to the radio. My impression of the three songs most often played on English language Los Angeles radio in 2023-24 are The Eagles’ “Hotel California,” Boston’s “More Than A Feeling,” and Fleetwood Mac’s “Dreams,” all of which came out when I was a freshman in college in 1976-77.

These days’ radio stations seem to play each band’s most popular song vastly more often than even it’s second most popular song. I must have heard “Hotel California” ten times as often as “Take It Easy.” (Granted, “Take It Easy” is probably played more often in Winslow, Arizona, while “Hotel California” is huge on Sunset Boulevard, where the album cover was shot.) In the old days, disk jockeys would get bored and play other songs, but I’m sure now MBAs have moneyballed playlists.

Also, there seems to be a sharp dividing line determining which oldies are too old, at least during drive time, set at about 52 years ago. I’m guessing that radio stations figure people first imprint on new music at age 13 and retire from daily commuting at age 65. The first month I was driving, the oldest song I could remember hearing on a commercial radio station was Elton John’s 1971 “Tiny Dancer.” I heard very little Beatles or Stones. “Take It Easy” came out in 1972 so it’s right about the point at which commuters are retiring to take it easy, so it’s not played that much anymore.

Fortunately, Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations, such as Cal State Northridge’s playing upscale rock, new and old; USC has classical; and Long Beach St. jazz. Loyola Marymount still has a traditional anti-moneyball college radio station with the weird kids on campus playing weird music. Good for them.

The Washington Post has a fun article about which genres of music are most popular with Americans: the winner, by far, is Classic Rock (which centers around 1970s electric guitar music):

The genre with the most haters is rap and the only genre that is more disliked than liked is punk rock. As Donald Trump told Ali G, the most popular thing in the world is music, so the only form of popular music that is on net unpopular is punk anti-music.

 
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  1. Anonymous[111] • Disclaimer says:

    Saying all that, I would a million times rather listen to some of PIL’s (Public Image Ltd, Johnny Rotten’s vehicle after abandoning the Sex Pistols) most difficult and challenging early output, eg, ‘Pop tones’, ‘Careering’, than that mass produced consumer ready packaged anodyne bullshit from the likes of Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran etc.

    • Replies: @Corpse Tooth
    @Anonymous

    Punk is hard on the ears. And there's a million miles betwixt PIL and GAE hag Taylor Swift.

  2. Anonymous[780] • Disclaimer says:

    Why is World music dead last? Yanni is one of the most popular performers of all time.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Anonymous


    Why is World music dead last? Yanni is one of the most popular performers of all time.
     
    The survey was about "which genres of music are most popular with Americans"
    , @Almost Missouri
    @Anonymous

    Wait, this is World Music?

    I hate that too.

    I thought World Music was stuff like soukous d'afrique, maskanda, música sertaneja, Celtic medieval revival, etc.

    , @Vlad III
    @Anonymous

    Yanni is generally considered new age, not world music.

  3. For anyone so inclined there is a Flemish language station called Joe Gold on the interweb which plays 6os and 70s stuff which you don’t hear much anywhere else.

    Very little talking, nearly all music, short news in Flemish on the hour.

    • Thanks: epebble
    • Replies: @ydydy
    @Gordo

    Whenever I rent a car with Sattelite Radio I listen to (comedy and) French Hip Hop.

    Occasionally I also (used to) find the occasional Public Radio station that's more interesting than annoying with all sorts of agenda-free interesting stories.

    Public Radio before 2007 was often pretty good.

  4. In the ‘80s in New York, the oldies station would play songs from the ‘50s, while today they’ll play stuff from the ‘80s. I guess they would have gone back further in the ‘80s except that the ‘50s were the dawn of rock, and probably not many listeners straddled ‘50s rock and ‘40s big band music.

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Dave Pinsen

    The BBC actually did play stuff from the 1920s and 1930s, as long as there was a reasonable cohort of listeners from that era still alive. As a student I went through a 20s music phase so would sometimes listen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_Band_Days

    Indeed I can remember from my childhood the music show "Sing Something Simple" would go back as far as Victorian music hall songs and parlour ballads - stuff like "Just A Song At Twilight".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple

    "The programme ended partly because Cliff Adams died that year and partly because of Radio 2's repositioning to appeal to the former Radio 1 audience."

    , @Not Raul
    @Dave Pinsen

    With kids imprinting on music at 13, would the dividing line be kids born in 1939 and earlier versus kids born in 1940 and later?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Crazyres321.jpg

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Dave Pinsen


    ‘40s big band music.
     
    Speaking of big band music, WDCB.org's Jukebox Saturday Night Show for May 5 features singing band leaders.

    Available on their two week archive.
    https://wdcb.org/archive
  5. We don’t have a lot of generative culture anymore. Some of the old stuff will stay around due to old white people’s nostalgia, plus some young white people will take an interest in it, like ancient ruins that speak to them.

    In the old days, disk jockeys would get bored and play other songs, but I’m sure now MBAs have moneyballed playlists.

    Efficiency is important, but people who only optimize without exploring new territory produce stagnation.

    • Agree: Gallatin
    • Replies: @bomag
    @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality


    Efficiency is important, but people who only optimize without exploring new territory produce stagnation.
     
    Good point; but we're in a weird era where big biz has routine-ed most of daily life into a bland sameness while the libs/progressives are congratulating themselves for giving us the toxic newness of transgenderism; more addictive drugs; et al.
  6. 17 and English in 1977. I still love punk rock.

    When my daughter was 16 and playing electric guitar I tried to get her to listen to the Sex Pistols – she had the perfect screaming voice for it and the songs were simple enough to play I thought. Totally not interested.

  7. Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It’s garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this “going viral”.

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, “Source: Prof G analysis”, which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. (“Source: Science December 2016″)

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.

    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    (“Source: Federal Reserve”)

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 … 60%
    2023 … 27%
    (“Source: Pew Research”)

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    “It’s never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It’s never been harder to be a millionaire.”

    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”

    “Harvard is the best example of this … they’re no longer in higher education. They’re a hedge fund offering classes.”

    “Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls.”

    “We should not romanticize obesity. You’re not finding your truth. You’re finding diabetes.” [You can tell he’s a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.

    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not “Why do they do this?”, but “Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?” Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums (“Universal Pre-K”, “Re-fund [sic] the IRS”, “Internet identity verification”), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations (“No phones in schools”, “National service”, “Income-based affirmative action”). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Almost Missouri

    In b4 "MORE tags!". I put 'em in. I don't know why they sometimes don't work.

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Almost Missouri

    Solutions.

    To lower housing prices, stop immigration and build a HUGE number (tens of millions) of new homes. Then home prices will fall dramatically. You could even offer discount mortgages to married America-born citizen middle-class couples with kids. That'd raise fertility & marriage rates, while making it much more affordable.

    Lowering the cost of university education is possible too.

    We can have general cognitive tests for generic entry-level positions and specialized tests for the professions (engineer, accountant, pilot, etc.). Then hire the highest scorers, regardless of whether they have a degree. It’s meritocratic, fair, and results-oriented. It’d ensure no discrimination by race, gender, orientation, etc. There are studies that show that standardized test scores are more highly with job performance than any other characteristic. Hiring by test would increase the competence of all the employees hired and ensure that we have the best quality workforce.

    This would eliminate the need for people to travel hundreds (often thousands) miles away to some university and live on campus. People could learn the necessary skills & knowledge (for the test for the jobs that they desired) through online classes, community colleges, or self-teaching. This would be far less expensive and more convenient, while eliminating the need to take extraneous classes. Students could also probably finish their studies far more quickly. You could still attend a 4-year university if your parents had the money and you wanted the "university experience," but doing so wouldn't be necessary for most jobs. It's your test score, not credential, that determines whether you get hired.

    To summarize, my administration would do the following.

    -Stop all immigration.
    -Build tens of millions of new homes.
    -Offer discount mortgages to America-born middle-class married citizen couples with kids, to boost fertility & marriage rates.
    -Hire by standardized test, instead of by college degree.

    Simple solutions. Massive societal benefits.

    Replies: @bomag, @Twinkie, @guest007, @guest007

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Almost Missouri


    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    It may be Galloway's mission, but it has never been the mission of Harvard, Yale, etc. Those schools were created in the 17th century to provide an elite caste of Protestant ministers, and in some sense that is still how they see their mission - educating the elites of tomorrow. Harvard has no interest in turning a talented working class white boy from a dysfunctional family into a solid middle class father living a nice life in the suburbs. That transformation earns Harvard no clout in the halls of power nor real future donations. If Harvard can turn an impoverished black girl into an eloquent angry activist that will have the ear of the media, congressmen and CEOs - well that is worth doing, from the institution's point of view. Turning a private school attending upper middle class kid into a hedge fund founder? Even better, donations will flow. The Ivy Leagues do not serve the "public good" as most Americans understand the concept. And really they never have.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Almost Missouri

    , @Anonymous
    @Almost Missouri


    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    I dare say most taxpayers would settle for the bottom 90% being taught to read, write, do sums, and not be a pain in the arse to have as neighbours.

    If you set up a school and it becomes a good school, the great danger is that everyone wants to go there. -- Former Deputy PM John Prescott
    , @Sebastian Hawks
    @Almost Missouri

    “We should not romanticize obesity. You’re not finding your truth. You’re finding diabetes.”

    Don't worry, our corporate pharmaceutical racket has just come out with "The little pill with the big fat story to tell!" to solve that problem...and they've been bribing the TV networks and billionaire media owner-political donor class to not look into the ripoff of Americans by the pharmaceutical racket. What else can these endless prescription drug ads be other than a payoff since nobody has the legal authority to go out and purchase any of this stuff? It's not being advertised to consumers which should be a red flag, when you get sick your doctor sends you to the pharmacy to pickup whatever they choose, not you. It's all a big, legal bribe to the 500 failing TV networks not to run any 60 minute type exposes on the damage to the economy by the bloated health care racket.

    , @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri

    Thanks! I now don't have to watch it.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    , @E. Rekshun
    @Almost Missouri

    2023 US Population = 335 million
    1983 US Population = 235 million

    https://tinyurl.com/3dvn9jyp

    , @AnotherDad
    @Almost Missouri


    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.
     
    Ergo is peddling nonsense, even if pointing out what a disaster has unfolded.

    Immigration is essentially *the* issue. There is finance "industry" skimming, neoliberalism, the swollen super-state and of course other toxic minoritarian garbage--e.g. BLM and peddling the anti-sex QWERTY++ disease. But immigration is the incredible hulk.

    The 1970s weren't that great a time to enter the workforce--the lead Boomers had sucked up the goodies already and the 60s boom was over--but the competition for jobs and housing was "my fellow Americans" not "the world". So putting together a decent life was tractable from profession, to middle class, to working class. All that was required was hard work--not being a complete idiot, screw up, druggie, criminal.

    If we had skipped the immigration insanity and were a nation of 250 we'd still have that today. Heck, even if we'd just stop the "must have immigration!" lunacy right now affordable family formation for our young folks would immediately start getting better and get radically better in over the next generation.

    But pile the other 8 billion people on their chest, yeah it's hard to breathe.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    , @res
    @Almost Missouri

    Thanks. Glad to see someone promoting that sort of analysis. This struck me.


    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    Is "higher ed" really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school? And for the rest focus on making high school better. It really should not take four years of tertiary education to (fail to) learn algebra.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @guest007
    @Almost Missouri

    The Supreme Court has ruled that national service outside of a military draft is unconstitutional.

    , @Frau Katze
    @Almost Missouri

    It’s not just the US. It’s just as bad if not worse in Canada. Young people cannot afford to buy a home — and now they can’t even afford to rent.

    Adult children living with parents is becoming common.

    Thanks to massive immigration there are shortages of all sorts and the opposition Conservative Party actually mentioned immigration in their latest email.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  8. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    In b4 “MORE tags!”. I put ’em in. I don’t know why they sometimes don’t work.

  9. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, is it true that VDare hosted a lemon party at the VDare castle?

  10. What kind of bull sh** list is this? No Bluegrass? No Zydeco? No Tuvan Throat Warbeling? And Rap isn’t even music.

    And who listens to the radio nowadays? I didn’t know the thing was still around. Just turn on Pandora and down vote any song you’ve grown to hate.

    • Replies: @Tom F.
    @Old Prude

    SXM.

    re: Tuvan throat singing, I'm sure you've seen the documentary 'Genghis Blues' concerning Paul Pena (RIP) the Frisco blues singer, who wrote 'Jet Airliner' and Steve Miller made it a hit!

    , @Sparkon
    @Old Prude

    Yeah, no category for "The '60s," which made it impossible for anyone to vote for the greatest decade in Rock music.

    Well, this long set is for all you guys and gals who missed the '60s, especially the early '60s during the JFK years.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSWMJxbxj7c

    Runaway
    Del Shannon
    1961

    Nine more below the tag...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6oLjo4R2aQ

    Runaround Sue
    Dion & the Belmonts
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw67OOjZ3oE

    Johnny Angel
    Shelley Fabres
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkum4B162M

    And Then He Kissed Me
    Crystals
    1963

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXo1zAwIwnw

    Rag Doll
    Frankie Valli & Four seasons
    1964

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFTLu4stOw

    Along Comes Mary
    The Association
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NJayW1kOeM

    California Dreaming
    Mamas & Papas
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-SO8JcsvWU

    Up, Up and Away
    The 5th Dimension
    1967

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Sua_QTDs0

    Stormy
    Classics IV
    1968

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xGxQXmu7Os

    Get Together
    Youngbloods
    1969

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Gary in Gramercy, @FPD72

  11. Here’s an interesting article about “stuck culture.”

    https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/culture-stuck

    The problem with being down so long is that it will start looking like up to you. If you are under the age of 30 you may think things are normal. But to someone who has lived 3 decades or more you may notice something odd: we haven’t had a shift like we did in the past. Culture is frozen. Throughout the 20th century we had changes almost every decade. Changes in fashion, in music, in aesthetics, hairstyles, style of comedy, television shows and movies. It sort of felt like someone was directing society from the top down, dictating a big shift every 10 years to something new. A director. If I show you a photo or play you a song from the 20th century, you’d probably be able to guess the decade. It was that clean of a break.

    Old songs now represent 70% of the US music market.

    The new music market is actually shrinking. All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. The current list of most downloaded tracks on iTunes is filled with the names of bands from the last century.

    In the past few years alone, a few companies have snapped up music rights related to artists including Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Shakira, John Lennon, and Dire Straits. By acquiring music rights, these companies can reap the money from royalties, licensing, brand deals, and other revenue streams that would have gone to the artist. These contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    There are millions of songs and artists on various streaming sites. People are overwhelmed. They are going back to the media monoculture of the 20th century.

    • Agree: Gallatin
    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
    @JohnnyWalker123

    This books was very prescient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Tail_(book)

    Written by former Wired Magazine editor Chris Anderson nearly twenty years ago, it predicted the decline of the mass-market for 'hits' in favor of a proliferation of niche markets instead. The 20th century was the age of hits, while the 21st is the age of the niches ... apparently filled with the hits of yesteryear.

    , @res
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What do you think of his two reasons?


    So what’s going on. Why is culture stuck? I have two arguments

    1) We lived in a 20th century media monoculture where the culture changed every decade from the top down. This was done by the handful of radio stations, television stations, hollywood and fashion houses. Then, the real internet came along in 2005 and decentralized everything. All of a sudden, small groups online have innovated and changed. But the big media monoculture has stayed the same. Why? Because the current model makes money, and why change it? Why risk it? Not everyone is going along with you like the previous century where people had no choice.

    2) Algorithms
     
    , @Muggles
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The huge Boomer population cohort moves through culture like a deer through a python.

    While Boomers don't directly buy much music any longer, neither does anyone else.

    And what they like also affects their kids/grand-kids who get exposed to this.

    A recent Rolling Stones concert tour was mostly sold out. They are pushing 80 now...

    So far the only music not to catch on much in the West is Arabic music.

    Thank Allah! If you've ever been in a Middle Eastern taxi, you've heard it.

    Sounds awful. But I found that eventually I came to tolerate and even enjoy some performers despite the dissonant sounds. Of course I couldn't understand the lyrics. A lot of female singers back in the 70s.

    Replies: @Trinity

    , @Ancient Mason
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Contemporary music regardless of genre has abandoned melody.

  12. Here’s an intriguing analysis of the music industry.

    https://akinokure.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-mirage-of-raps-popularity-how.html

    The mirage of rap’s popularity: How streaming stats mislead vs. sales and airplay

    Looking over the top 100 songs for 2020, I was struck yet again by how much rap there is. I’ve noticed this for the past several years, and figured I was just out of touch with that area of pop music, since I don’t listen to rap radio stations, don’t know anyone who’s really into rap, and don’t go to clubs that play rap. Still, it just seemed like a growing presence that was not my cup of tea.

    But having studied the seismic shift that streaming has had on the music culture, I can finally make some sense of it. Rap is in fact a niche genre, with a few crossover hits to mainstream audiences. However, the media elites who construct the chart formulas have put their thumb on the scale in order to over-emphasize rap’s popularity and influence, at the expense of truly popular genres like pop, country, and dance.

    The formal trick they use is giving substantial weight to streaming stats, which do not distinguish between breadth vs. depth of exposure. And popularity is about breadth of exposure across the entire music-listening population, not the depth of devotion among fans who expose themselves repeatedly to the song, as opposed to casual fans who expose themselves to it far fewer times.

    So if you too were wondering why there’s so much emphasis on rap in the media, you weren’t crazy. It’s another example of woke representation practices, meant to buy off the “talented tenth” of African-Americans, who get employment in the entertainment sector, and placate the bottom 90% of them with cultural cred — rather than the entertainment and media elites using their high status to lobby the Democrats into providing desperately needed public goods and services.

    [MORE]

    First, a clarification — the Billboard charts are a product of the media sector, not entertainment. The record labels produce the music, the artists perform it, and various other channels distribute it to the audience (radio stations, clubs, streaming platforms, etc.). Billboard is more of a trade publication than a cultural commentary one, but it’s still part of the media sector, albeit the entertainment-focused media.

    So, this is not a case of the production side making a ton of rap songs that nobody wants to listen to. Nor is it the distributors taking a niche genre and foisting it on users of their platforms like YouTube, radio stations, and so on. Those two sides are too driven by the cold, hard laws of supply & demand to attempt to deliver a bunch of stuff that is largely unwanted.

    However, the media who describe and comment on entertainment are under no such constraints. Or rather, their supply & demand laws are different because their audience is not listeners of music per se, but readers of music-themed discourse. Their audience wants to read takes, and spit out takes of their own, which is orthogonal to what types of music they enjoy listening to.

    It’s perfectly possible, then, for Billboard to mischaracterize the state of supply & demand in the music industry, if doing so will satisfy the cravings of discourse junkies. It would be wrong to call this “foisting” their narrative onto the music-listening public, because the typical music fan probably never looks at the Billboard charts. Those who do consume media commentary on music, though, evidently eat up the narrative about how influential rap is, so the media outlets are not foisting the misleading description onto their audience either — they’re just supplying the demand for a certain narrative.

    But if you do want an overall accurate picture of what the zeitgeist is like, out of curiosity, just bear in mind that the media chart creators can and do rig the outcome in order to please their target audience above all else. It won’t be totally outta whack, since such a picture would not even be plausible, and the audience wants the illusion of reality as well as the ideologically soothing distortions. Still, something to take into account.

    * * *

    Now, the basic problem. For the 2020 Hot 100 chart, I count 30-some rap songs. Not a majority, but still a sizable share. And to anyone who’s been in touch with music this year, way too many. What gives?

    Well, the Hot 100 chart is actually made up of several component charts. The three with heaviest weighting are sales of singles (i.e. digital downloads), radio airplay, and streaming plays. As of 2013, these carry weightings of 35-45%, 30-40%, and 20-30%, respectively, and the weightings change week to week.

    The shifting weekly weightings is the first obvious sign that the chart creators are using these stats to rig the desired outcome, otherwise the weightings would stay the same in order to judge all songs by the same set of standards. In one week, one weighting will accomplish the goal of maximizing rap at the expense of pop, dance, and country, while a different weighting will be needed for another week, since each week’s batch of songs perform somewhat differently relative to one another.

    For example, if the sales stats favor pop over rap by a huge amount in week 1, and to a lesser degree in week 2, then the chart-riggers will have to give a lower weight to sales in week 1 than in week 2.

    Let’s turn to Billboard’s Digital Songs sales chart, of which their website lists only the top 75. For the 2020 chart, I count about 10 of the rap songs that are also on the Hot 100 chart, and several others that are not. Scaling that to a list of 100 by sales, that would be about 15-20 rap songs — in other words, only half as many as actually appear on the Hot 100 chart.

    Not only is rap less pervasive on the sales chart, but big hit songs you’ve been hearing all year do in fact show up, while they’re mysteriously missing from the Hot 100 chart. “Kings and Queens” by Ava Max, “Midnight Sky” by Miley Cyrus, and “Stupid Love” by Lady Gaga in the dance genre. “Lover” and “Cardigan” by Taylor Swift in the adult contempo genre. And a slew of country songs I don’t recognize because I’m not in the target demographic. Again, that’s only for the 75 songs listed on their website; if they had a full list of 100, there would be more staples of the zeitgeist in those genres that were kept out of the Hot 100.

    When I looked over the sales chart, it felt 10 times more familiar than what’s listed on the Hot 100 chart. And that’s not just from what I seek out deliberately — it’s from what I hear in any public place that plays music, what’s on while changing radio stations, what’s popular on Tik Tok trends, what a popular streamer like Pokimane plays in the background while chatting, what anyone is talking about, what online memes refer to… literally every source of pop culture other than the music media itself.

    There is a heavy overlap between the sales and Hot 100 charts, since the big-picture narrative from the Hot 100 chart cannot be totally divorced from reality. Still, it’s striking how disoriented a normal music listener — who doesn’t care about woke ideology being reflected in the list — would get from there being a sizable minority of fake rap songs shoehorned in, and the same number of actually popular dance / pop / country songs erased from the record.

    * * *

    As for radio airplay, Billboard doesn’t list their top 100 songs online, but by genre it must reflect the distribution of radio station listenership size by genre (called a “format”). See Nielsen’s overview of the top radio formats at the end of 2019.

    There is no dedicated rap or hip-hop format, but they are included under the urban contemporary and (to a lesser degree) the urban adult contemporary formats. So however well those formats do, rap must do worse, since urban contempo (and especially urban AC) also includes a bunch of R&B songs.

    Among music stations playing current music, the formats with the largest listenership size are adult contempo, country, and pop, followed by hot AC and urban AC, with urban contempo lagging down with Mexican regional. Notice that this is the opposite ranking of which genres are artificially boosted on the Hot 100 chart.

    Even more telling is the fact that Mexican regional does not get over-represented on the Hot 100, despite the potential wokeness cred that the chart-riggers could enjoy from doing so, and despite it being as popular or more so on the radio than rap. However, the cultural commentators and their audiences don’t find Mexican culture interesting, other than the food, and they don’t feel as strong of a need to “heal historical traumas” or “correct the historical record” by amplifying recognition of Mexican culture today, as compared to African-American culture.

    The same goes for the Spanish contempo format, which is about as popular as rap (if not urban contempo as a whole, due to R&B’s popularity), and is as popular as alternative. But listening to reggaeton enough to have an opinion on it one way or another, let alone actually dancing to it in a club with thicc-booty Cuban girls, would absolutely mortify the dorky white liberal males who control the music-themed media sector, and make up most of the audience as well.

    “Spanish music” is still too dance-oriented and corporeal for it to appeal to the cerebral types who are take junkies and media consumers. There’s no pretension in the lyrics about “telling a larger story,” “raising awareness,” etc., and there’s no raw angsty attitude like in modern rap, which in many ways has become the black version of punk — non-musical angst, verbal focus, and a basic beat without melodic instruments.

    When rap is (slightly) more melodic, dance-oriented, and aimed at dudes and dudettes grinding on each other in a club, rather than individuals stewing in angst alone in their room, music media people lose all interest. Suddenly it’s just a pretext for animalistic booty-shaking. Like all good cerebrals, they only condone sex-having and lust in music if it’s centered around boobs (elevating) rather than butts (sinful).

    * * *

    That leaves only streaming as the component of the Hot 100 that must be artificially boosting the popularity of rap, and diminishing that of pop, dance, and country. This component reflects all the big platforms — YouTube, Spotify, et al.

    The first problem with streaming is the youth bias: 55% of Spotify users are aged 18-34. And in Nielsen’s radio listenership article, urban contempo skyrockets to 4th place in that age group, while Mexican regional and Spanish contempo lag far behind. Giving greater weight to streaming means giving rap more representation compared to pop, country and Spanish-language music.

    But there’s a far greater distortion that comes from using streaming stats. Billboard uses the total number of plays across streaming media (in the US), which could be a lot of people listening a few times each (a broadly popular fad song), or a few diehards listening to it over and over again (a niche song that will last forever in the fanbase).

    That makes streaming unlike sales of songs, where one sale could be listened to one time or one million times — it’s still measuring the song’s exposure to just one individual. Diehard fans do not skew the overall results by listening to their purchases many times more than casual fans who bought the same song. Total sales of a song = total individuals exposed directly.

    And it’s also unlike radio airplay, which takes audience size into account. They use the share of radio listeners tuned into a certain station for at least 5 minutes during a 15-minute interval. If a song is played in that interval, that audience size is about how many people were exposed to the song.

    Even if someone tunes into the station and hears that song every day, it doesn’t skew the overall results because they aren’t adding to the audience size by tuning in every day — it’s roughly the same size from one week to the next. Diehard fans may be tuning in every day, while casual fans only listen some days of the week — but the total size stays about even because some casual fans who are absent on one day are made up for by other casual fans who are tuning in that day. (And when those casuals tune out later in the week, the casuals who were tuned out earlier in the week show up to replace them.)

    So if anything, radio airplay is skewed more by casual listeners than by diehard fans, since the total number of casual listeners is hardly all present on any given day. Thus, the station’s listenership is larger than it would appear from a snapshot in time. And assuming some song is a regular in the station’s playlist throughout the week, it’s reaching a broader audience than it would appear from a snapshot. Like sales, radio airplay measures breadth rather than depth.

    The streaming stats could be made accurate by measuring the total number of unique individuals who played the song during a given interval, regardless of how many times they played it. Spotify could do that, since their users have to have downloaded the app and be signed in. But YouTube does not require you to even have an account, let alone be signed in, to search for and play videos. And big hits get in the 100s of millions of views on YouTube (albeit globally), so that is no small problem with aggregating streaming stats across all platforms.

    I guess YouTube could try tracking how many unique IPs within the US played a video in a given interval, regardless of number of times played. But they’re not doing that.

    And the larger point is they don’t want to — it would ruin their goal of over-representing rap in the Hot 100 chart, to construct the narrative of how influential a certain part of African-American culture is in the broader society. Using youth-biased streaming stats, with a substantial and shifting weighting, and measuring total plays rather than audience size, are just the technical means toward the end of narrative construction.

    • Thanks: Ministry Of Tongues, bomag, res
    • Replies: @Redneck Farmer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Supposedly, rap really took off when point of sale tracking started in the early 90s for music. More rap than rock records were being sold.
    Also country, which freaked out certain entertainment types even worse.

    , @Anon Cubed
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Awaiting some Diddy exposé about how rap changed and what that did to performers and listeners.

    , @R.G. Camara
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Rap became very, very controlled by the music industry in the 1990s with the advent of the thoroughly-music-industry created "gangsta rap."

    Up until that point, rap had been a decent subgenre with some hits and notable names, e.g. The Fat Boys,a gimmicky chubby rap group who got to star in major studio movies; The Beastie Boys, Jewish white rappers from Brooklyn who layered their rap with lots of rock; and Run DMC, who covered Aerosmith's "Walk this Way" to a hit. But rap was always seen as either a novelty or a minor subgenre, black dominated and yet limited -- in short, it wasn't as catchy as a rock, pop, country, or funk tune.

    In the 1990s however, the music industry came up with the idea of "gangsta rap" and enlisted a group of talented but nonthreatening black music geeks, changed their image to one of hardcore gangsters, called them NWA , and then pushed them to the moon with lyrics about violence, sex, and criminal behavior. And then created this industry image that unless another talented rapper gave you "street cred", you never got radio play.

    In other words, record companies controlled who became the next big rapper by making sure radios wouldn't play anyone without "street cred"---and who gave street cred? Why only other record company controlled hit rappers, of course!

    Thus how we got limp-wristed theater kids like Tupac Shakur fronting as a do-rag wearing tough guy from the hood. Or chubby midgets like Ice Cube pretending to be some kind of super-hard gang leader.

    Unlike with other genres, in rap it became impossible to get big simply by touring a lot and writing good songs. Of course, black violence at shows caused a lot of this, as non-blacks wouldn't show up at many low level black rap shows for fear of violence. But the record companies also made sure to clamp down early on any talented rapper who was trying the old touring method of getting big, which would have allowed rappers to escape the record company controls.

    Instead, rappers became big in the same way teen idols did----a record company exec noticed you, controlled your image, put you on the radio, and made you dance for them--and if you crossed them, you were out on the street before you could blink (or worse---see Shakur and Biggie Smalls).

    NWA was about as processed and controlled as New Kids on the Block. And today, The Weeknd is as beholden to the record companies and their payloa to radio stations as Justin Bieber.

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Speaking of rap, this rap video, from Harvard Medical School (!), might just have finished off the genre itself. Never before has human endeavour plumbed such depths of cringe:

    https://youtu.be/TcpRt3D_EVc?si=U4zpromDFNo7mLd0

    , @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Record company executives love rap because black artists are dumb enough to sign away their entire rights to the company. That's the only reason rap gets pushed on us.

  13. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    Solutions.

    To lower housing prices, stop immigration and build a HUGE number (tens of millions) of new homes. Then home prices will fall dramatically. You could even offer discount mortgages to married America-born citizen middle-class couples with kids. That’d raise fertility & marriage rates, while making it much more affordable.

    Lowering the cost of university education is possible too.

    We can have general cognitive tests for generic entry-level positions and specialized tests for the professions (engineer, accountant, pilot, etc.). Then hire the highest scorers, regardless of whether they have a degree. It’s meritocratic, fair, and results-oriented. It’d ensure no discrimination by race, gender, orientation, etc. There are studies that show that standardized test scores are more highly with job performance than any other characteristic. Hiring by test would increase the competence of all the employees hired and ensure that we have the best quality workforce.

    This would eliminate the need for people to travel hundreds (often thousands) miles away to some university and live on campus. People could learn the necessary skills & knowledge (for the test for the jobs that they desired) through online classes, community colleges, or self-teaching. This would be far less expensive and more convenient, while eliminating the need to take extraneous classes. Students could also probably finish their studies far more quickly. You could still attend a 4-year university if your parents had the money and you wanted the “university experience,” but doing so wouldn’t be necessary for most jobs. It’s your test score, not credential, that determines whether you get hired.

    To summarize, my administration would do the following.

    -Stop all immigration.
    -Build tens of millions of new homes.
    -Offer discount mortgages to America-born middle-class married citizen couples with kids, to boost fertility & marriage rates.
    -Hire by standardized test, instead of by college degree.

    Simple solutions. Massive societal benefits.

    • Thanks: Gallatin
    • Replies: @bomag
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Good suggestions.


    Build tens of millions of new homes.
     
    If economics worked as advertised, I'd think we'd be in the middle of a massive building boom. But as Thomas Malthus suspected, there eventually comes a limiting factor to human existence, and it could well be space where people wants to live.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don't have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @bomag, @AnotherDad, @res

    , @guest007
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The issue is not building houses but building houses near jobs. As Steve Sailer has pointed out many times, cities like New York or San Francisco have no more land. And living in a high rise condo is not conducive to family formation.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @guest007
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Almost Missouri

  14. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”

    It may be Galloway’s mission, but it has never been the mission of Harvard, Yale, etc. Those schools were created in the 17th century to provide an elite caste of Protestant ministers, and in some sense that is still how they see their mission – educating the elites of tomorrow. Harvard has no interest in turning a talented working class white boy from a dysfunctional family into a solid middle class father living a nice life in the suburbs. That transformation earns Harvard no clout in the halls of power nor real future donations. If Harvard can turn an impoverished black girl into an eloquent angry activist that will have the ear of the media, congressmen and CEOs – well that is worth doing, from the institution’s point of view. Turning a private school attending upper middle class kid into a hedge fund founder? Even better, donations will flow. The Ivy Leagues do not serve the “public good” as most Americans understand the concept. And really they never have.

    • Thanks: SFG
    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Okay since we're really getting down to this, then let's get down to this.

    For the record, I have no real personal interest in gassing on about the Harvard scene, but since:

    a) it preoccupies an unusual amount of the Sailersphere's world, and
    b) it does occupy a significant amount of the public's time, and given its reach and influence, that is not a crazy matter to attend to; and
    c) lots of people, as attested to here, seem to have a really strange almost pathological conception of what actually goes on there...

    Let me clear a few things up. Unlike most of you, I actually went there, and I actually made the scene, so lemme tell you how it is.

    First things first...

    -- You have to understand, it was a different scene decades ago, this would NEVER happen now, but back then I was your prime-A candidate: working-class white-ethnic kid, near-perfect SATs, perfect 4.0 GPA from an elite school, poor-boy scholarship kid, kooky extra-curriculars (I was a well-known underground cartoonist), crazy avant-garde stage director, the works.

    -- You can't imagine how much MONEY people threw at me from all over the country: I could have ridden around in a sedan chair at Williams or Stanford, carried by slavegirls who fed me iced coffee and chilled grapes.

    -- But when I took a look at Harvard, I saw something different: they offered me not a golden-plated scholarship but a decent fair deal, which included student debt and washing dishes and scrubbing toilet bowls. So, y'know, I accepted.

    -- I turned down comfort and security in exchange for hardship and debt, because I knew what Harvard had, which the other schools didn't have: the secret keys to POWER. And they did not disappoint.

    There's an inside joke about Harvard: you ignore the professors, and pay very close attention to your fellow students.

    It's true. Among the people I studied with, some of the professors were kind of cool (the best one was a graduate-student tutor), but the real gasoline came from the other kids: the most life-changing, mind-expanding experiences I had there all came from other students. They're all household names now, I won't bore you with who they are.

    But at Williams, you go around taking some good classes and graduate with a magna;

    At Harvard (this really happened to me) you have a pleasant first year and then you get kicked out for being in a drunken brawl and then your House master realizes that you were railroaded and sets you up with a job at MIT designing computer games, and then still as a teenager you co-found an experimental theater company which still exists to this very day, and then you create gigantic psychotic theater productions which gets you a lot of attention in Hollywood.

    Like I say, you learn how Power works.

    Replies: @onetwothree, @Anonymous, @NotAnonymousHere

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Mostly agree, but there was a mid-20th century interregnum (perhaps best personified by James Bryant Conant, whom The Atlantic used to lionize, believe it or not) where Harvard really did try to find the diamonds in the rough out in flyover country, and really did discuss its role as part of a democratic nation. It won't say "nation" anymore and only invokes "democracy" in the inverted, authoritarian way that the rest of the Establishment uses it now, but Galloway is hearkening back to something that really did exist for while. Indeed, he himself is a late-stage product of it, which is probably part of why he is emotional about the subject.

  15. I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz, “hating jazz” seems to be a trope in a lot of pop culture. Or maybe it’s an English thing:

    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Redneck Farmer
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Jazz tends to suffer (like certain pop/rock/country/hip-hop groups/artists) from being told endlessly by A Certain Kind of Fan that it's Good For You to like this, or else.

    , @Corpse Tooth
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I prefer structure: 80% of my music time is Classical. I'm quite the sophisticate. Jazz relies on improvisation which can be somewhat excretory.

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Peter Akuleyev


    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz,
     
    Personally I'm a big jazz fan, and listen to jazz nearly every day, and have done so for many, many years, but I think a lot of people say they don't like jazz because they find it obscure and don't understand it, and don't know the names of popular artists, and are not familiar with the tunes that form jazz standards.

    However often if people hear Jazz as part of the soundtrack of a movie, or even as background music in a supermarket, they don't even notice it's jazz.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @DenverGregg

  16. There are several music subscriptions that you can purchase for around $10 per month, that allow you to listen to any specific genre or sub-genre of music ad free on your cell phone or laptop. If you have bluetooth in your car, then you have all the music you like free of the ever increasingly ridiculous advertising that takes up about 25 minutes of an hour of FM radio.

    I’m not sure how expensive satellite radio is, but the last time I was in a car that had it, they still hit you with ads.

    Last I heard “classic rock” stations now play Nirvana and RHCP, and quite a bit less Floyd, Zeppelin, and Hendrix.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @cthulhu
    @Mike Tre


    I’m not sure how expensive satellite radio is, but the last time I was in a car that had it, they still hit you with ads.
     
    SiriusXM only does ads on the talk stations AFAIK. At least on the music channels I listen to - Underground Garage, Deep Tracks, First Wave, Beatles Channel, Classic Vinyl, B.B. King’s Bluseville - there are no ads. Most of the channels I listen to have DJs, which I thought was odd initially, but on the Underground Garage in particular, the DJs are very much added value, really knowledgeable and personable people who know their stuff. Lenny Kaye, on UG Monday and Tuesday nights, is fantastic; this is the guy who compiled the classic Nuggets collections, after all, plus playing guitar for Patti Smith.

    My only complaint with SXM is that some of the channels are too tightly constrained, but the Underground Garage is not - which is part of why I listen to it the most. Would hate to do without it.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

  17. If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it’s fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with “Hound Dog” and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so…. anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    • Replies: @Redneck Farmer
    @theMann

    What's it like to be a living Boomer Meme?

    , @Barnard
    @theMann

    I would guess most respondents answered "like it" unless they really didn't like it, even if they never listen the the genre. I think most people now consider music from the 80s and early 90s like Van Halen and Aerosmith classic rock.

    , @bomag
    @theMann

    Looks like a case of having a positive opinion of classical music, but not listening to it.


    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious?
     
    Agree.

    Either its listeners are a golden demographic to which advertisers cater; or the numbers are faked for the usual corporate reasons.

    , @Anonymous
    @theMann


    it’s fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?
     
    What makes this the likely answer is the fact that almost anytime you're in traffic near a car playing rap, a driver who's alone has his passenger side windows down for no reason, e.g. when the weather is cool.
    , @tr
    @theMann


    . . .my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.
     
    I recently retired from working at a community college. I would often see students wearing Nirvana t-shirts. Cobain would have died a decade before these students were born---It would have been the equivalent of people my age wearing Glen Miller t-shirts.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @theMann


    its broken one note Samba
     
    Tom Jobim worked all twelve tones into the bridge of "One Note Samba". And made it work. Can you imagine anyone doing that today?


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AuEv942wOZs
    , @Anonymous
    @theMann

    "why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?" Hardly.

    Stop making stuff up:

    https://classicalmusicrising.org/about/press-room/facts-figures/

    , @Tom F.
    @theMann


    Did everybody just lie in this poll?
     
    Yes. This is what happened when people filled out 'diaries' for both television and radio. People would CLAIM to watch PBS and listen to NPR. But when manually filled out diaries were replaced with Arbitron electronic ratings (for instance, cars on the freeway at the 101 and 405 interchange can be measured to how many are listening to broadcast news, urban, pop, satellite SXM, etc.) both PBS and NPR disappeared from the ratings results.

    Nobody listens/watches. People want to support a 'good cause' but won't actually listen/watch. Punchline: both PBS and NPR no longer pay to participate in the ratings systems.
  18. OT

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39512599

    If you’re aged 19-36 and don’t own your home, you’re probably not reading this in China.

    While young people around the world are struggling to get on the property ladder, an HSBC study found that 70% of Chinese millennials have achieved the milestone.

    A sizeable 91% also plan to buy a house in the next five years, according to the survey.

    The mortgage lender spoke to around 9,000 people based in nine countries.

    While China came out top of the pack, Mexico was next with 46% of millennials owning property, followed by France with 41%.

    In Malaysia, the US, and Canada, just over a third of the age group have bought a house or flat, while in the UK it’s 31%.

    How come China?

    So how have so many millennials managed to buy their homes?

    For sons in particular, it’s down to the Bank of Mum and Dad – and underpinned by the marriage market.

    Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.

    Chinese parents know their sons’ chances of marrying well are materially increased if they own a home.

    Dr Jieyu Liu, deputy director of the SOAS China Institute, told the BBC: “It is the custom that husbands will provide a home.

    “As young people’s wages are too low, the husband’s family is expected to take on the responsibility to purchase the property in their son’s name, or pay the deposit.

    “Many love stories fail to turn to marriage if the men fail to provide a marital house.”

    I smell something bovine. I know there’s a shortage of women, but I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30. It sounds as if family formation is just more affordable.

    • Replies: @res
    @YetAnotherAnon


    but I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30.
     
    Not sure where you got that. What I see is.

    Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.
     
    Here is a population pyramid for China.
    https://assets.realclear.com/images/61/618223.png

    Doing a quick calculation (sum the percentage differences from 20-49 then multiply by total population) I see an imbalance of 2.2% * 1.43e9 = 31.5 million.

    So their quoted statement seems plausible to me.

    Regarding this:

    It sounds as if family formation is just more affordable.
     
    The opposite appears to be the case.
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/2830656-the-chinese-housing-markets-outrageous-price-to-income-ratio

    In many Chinese cities, the price-to-income ratio for buying a house is between 20:1 and 35:1.

    To put this in perspective, in most areas of the U.S., the price-to-income ratio for buying a house ranges from as little as 0.5:1 to 3:1.
     
    The "Bank of Mum and Dad" comment seems to be eliding an important point. From the same link.

    The average lower- and even middle-class person can't buy a house. Only when both adults are working, and Grandma and Grandpa are living with them too, can an average middle-class family try to buy a house.
     
    They give an interesting link with a table of worldwide cities and their housing affordability.
    https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AnotherDad

  19. SFG says:

    Another one with high dislike ratings is hard rock /metal. That one had more of a blue-collar white following, so I suspect we’re going to find some fans here. (Myself included to some degree-I’ve got quite a bit of Rammstein, Metallica, and Iron Maiden on my playlist, though some of the more intense obscure metal is too much for me.)

    Probably aggressive music like punk, heavy metal, and rap is easier to hate; something like New Age just makes people say ‘meh; boring’.

    The exception is Christian contemporary, which is hated because it has taken a side in the culture war, much like rap. Punk was quite political as well, but has probably declined because being a masculine white guy isn’t cool anymore on the left.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    , @Arclight
    @SFG

    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it's a relic of what are considered better times - before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America's largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture. Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it's never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children. Listening to that genre of music is both nostalgia and a form of escapism.

    There *was* a better time and our rulers killed it stone dead on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of current teens and maybe young 20 somethings keep the classic rock/folk Americana/outlaw country genres going strong as a sort of reaction to mongrelized culture they get stuffed down their throats. No doubt academics will note this and start churning out courses and papers on the oppressiveness and white supremacist elements of its popularity, as it overlooks black blues and guitar pioneers that gifted America with this form of music and are not property acknowledged today.

    I did take some satisfaction in the hate for rap. It's truly music for retards and it's only positive use is in the gym, and even then I can't take it for long.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Goddard, @Anon

    , @Known Fact
    @SFG

    If Metal and Christian are so widely disliked, imagine the plight of Christian Metal groups like Stryper. My wife actually thought I was making stuff up when I told her Christian Metal really is a thing, and there's really a song called To Hell With the Devil. I will spare you the full version ...

    https://youtu.be/n00JzNM3vGA?si=BKAnHDMAp6khYjgS

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  20. anonymous[142] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Another one with high dislike ratings is hard rock /metal. That one had more of a blue-collar white following, so I suspect we’re going to find some fans here. (Myself included to some degree-I’ve got quite a bit of Rammstein, Metallica, and Iron Maiden on my playlist, though some of the more intense obscure metal is too much for me.)

    Probably aggressive music like punk, heavy metal, and rap is easier to hate; something like New Age just makes people say ‘meh; boring’.

    The exception is Christian contemporary, which is hated because it has taken a side in the culture war, much like rap. Punk was quite political as well, but has probably declined because being a masculine white guy isn’t cool anymore on the left.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Arclight, @Known Fact

    Wasn’t punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    • Replies: @SFG
    @anonymous

    Mom and Dad.

    , @Mark G.
    @anonymous

    "What were they in rebellion against?"

    Many of the punk rockers I knew in the late seventies disliked hippies. Rather than elaborate rock operas, they liked simple stripped down music like fifties rockabilly. Sartorially, they looked more like a fifties James Dean, Marlon Brando or Elvis than going around in the elaborate garb the hippies wore.

    People now tend to think of Boomers as one group but there was a big gap between someone born in the late forties and someone born in the early sixties. They ended up with very different tastes and even political beliefs. Late Boomers were more cynical and pessimistic. There was a big difference between "All You Need is Love" and "Anarchy in the U.K.".

    Replies: @Trinity, @Corpse Tooth

    , @Trinity
    @anonymous

    Trying to find a niche to belong to, that also describes hippies and could be why hippies became punk rockers later on.

    Definitely rebels without a cause acting like 5 year olds.

    , @Vlad III
    @anonymous

    You mean like Iggy Pop (Stooges), Henry Rollins (Black Flag), and Glenn Danzig (Misfits)?

    , @Gary in Gramercy
    @anonymous

    Ask Henry Rollins -- preferably from a safe distance.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @Jay Fink
    @anonymous

    That skinny no muscles look described me (still does) and I was a big punk fan as a teen in the early 80s. Then I went to my first punk concert (Social Distortion in 1982) and the crowd wasn't my fellow skinny no muscle nerds. It was a very edgy, hardcore group of people I couldn't relate to. I knew I wasn't a punk rocker after all. Today most of it sounds terrible to me although I have a few punk songs saved to my playlists for nostalgia sake.

    Replies: @Ministry Of Tongues, @Captain Tripps

  21. Anon[261] • Disclaimer says:

    I used to hear “Jack and Diane” endlessly on job sites, what Is it with that stupid song that they keep it on heavy rotation? So desperately, I turned the NPR for the first time in four years the other day, the first words out of the mouths of the commentators was Trump, negative of course. Talk about institutional TDS.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @Anon

    I read a recent comment that had 1000s of likes mocking a recent Mellencamp rant at one of his concerts..."A little ditty, about Shut the Fuck Up!" Some of these guys like Johnny Cougar and Bono do need to STFU and just sing.

    , @Jay Fink
    @Anon

    I hate that song with a passion. What a nightmare that it's never stopped being played since it was new over 40 years ago. Besides being terribly burned out on it I never could relate to the Jack character.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Reg Cæsar

  22. jb says:

    As I remember it, when I was a kid in the 60s “oldies” weren’t a thing. The radio played nothing but the latest hits, and then eventually they would stop playing the old songs and move on to newer hit songs, and you rarely heard the old ones after that. There was such a flood of new music that it left no room in the rotation for old music, and it didn’t seem like anyone wanted to hear it anyway. Then at some point — late 60s? early 70s? — I started hearing the term “golden oldies”, and there started to be radio stations dedicated to golden oldies, and I thought “how nice, they are playing those great old songs again”. I distinctly remember this as being a new thing! Does anyone else remember it that way?

    • Agree: Frau Katze
    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    @jb

    Yeah, more or less. I was a kid then who listened to a lot of AM radio back then and there were always a lot of "oldies". Most were only a few years old but it was obvious to me even as a preteen how much the music had changed starting circa 1965 from the earlier 50's through early 60's style.

  23. “Critics of media consolidation in broadcast radio say it has made the music played more homogeneous, and makes it more difficult for acts to gain local popularity.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_United_States

    • Thanks: Redneck Farmer
  24. @SFG
    Another one with high dislike ratings is hard rock /metal. That one had more of a blue-collar white following, so I suspect we’re going to find some fans here. (Myself included to some degree-I’ve got quite a bit of Rammstein, Metallica, and Iron Maiden on my playlist, though some of the more intense obscure metal is too much for me.)

    Probably aggressive music like punk, heavy metal, and rap is easier to hate; something like New Age just makes people say ‘meh; boring’.

    The exception is Christian contemporary, which is hated because it has taken a side in the culture war, much like rap. Punk was quite political as well, but has probably declined because being a masculine white guy isn’t cool anymore on the left.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Arclight, @Known Fact

    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it’s a relic of what are considered better times – before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America’s largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture. Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it’s never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children. Listening to that genre of music is both nostalgia and a form of escapism.

    There *was* a better time and our rulers killed it stone dead on purpose. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of current teens and maybe young 20 somethings keep the classic rock/folk Americana/outlaw country genres going strong as a sort of reaction to mongrelized culture they get stuffed down their throats. No doubt academics will note this and start churning out courses and papers on the oppressiveness and white supremacist elements of its popularity, as it overlooks black blues and guitar pioneers that gifted America with this form of music and are not property acknowledged today.

    I did take some satisfaction in the hate for rap. It’s truly music for retards and it’s only positive use is in the gym, and even then I can’t take it for long.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Arclight


    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it’s a relic of what are considered better times – before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America’s largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture.
     
    Sometime during the early summer of 2020, I saw an article somewhere (can't find it now) to the effect that classic pop music of the 70s were the then currently most downloaded songs on Spotify and other platforms, even by younger people. The article attributed it to the sudden desire by so many people for comfort and nostalgia (even nostalgia for a time before they were born) by people plunged into Corona Lockdown World. Of course, the Lockdown regime was the most bizarre, alienating, and dystopian social experiment ever imposed on ................. well, on the entire World. It f**ked with a lot of people's minds and left them all running to the Bee Gees and Ambrosia for a little solace.

    Replies: @Arclight

    , @Goddard
    @Arclight


    Just speaking personally, it’s a relic of what are considered better times . . .
     

    Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it’s never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children.
     
    Those songs are a funeral dirge for a dying people.
    , @Anon
    @Arclight

    Rock music of the early 1970s sold more units than any other music in history, from the millions to the tens of millions of LPs. This is because it had been carefully tooled through marketing trial and error to appeal to the masses. But what made it successful back then is the same thing that makes it still successful today-it appeals to the ears of the masses. It really is more innately likable music, which has been proven by its historically massive sales.

  25. I live in France and am amazed at how many places play American oldies. Motown is especially common.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Tono Bungay


    I live in France and am amazed at how many places play American oldies. Motown is especially common.

     

    I live in Hong Kong, and travel quite a bit, and can confirm that US nostalgia tunes seem to be everywhere. Motown is indeed common, although there is an awful lot of 80s music out there also. I can't count the number of times and places in recent years I've been in a restaurant or bar or store in a number of Asian/European contexts, and have heard a playlist that could have been lifted straight from KG95 out of Sioux City, IA, circa 1984.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jim Don Bob

  26. The “Hotel California” problem has been around for a long time. At a job over 20 years ago, the manager insisted on playing the radio, and we settled on an oldies station. Everyday–and I mean every damn day–they would play “Hotel California”. One guy was increasingly incensed by this song for some reason, while I was baffled that they never played any of the Eagles other 20 hits. My thought at the time: It’s long enough for a bathroom break. This is also the only thing that could explain the plays of Grand Funk’s execrable “I’m Your Captain (Closer to Home)”.

    One song that’s fallen off the most-played lists is “Stairway to Heaven”.

  27. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Almost Missouri


    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    It may be Galloway's mission, but it has never been the mission of Harvard, Yale, etc. Those schools were created in the 17th century to provide an elite caste of Protestant ministers, and in some sense that is still how they see their mission - educating the elites of tomorrow. Harvard has no interest in turning a talented working class white boy from a dysfunctional family into a solid middle class father living a nice life in the suburbs. That transformation earns Harvard no clout in the halls of power nor real future donations. If Harvard can turn an impoverished black girl into an eloquent angry activist that will have the ear of the media, congressmen and CEOs - well that is worth doing, from the institution's point of view. Turning a private school attending upper middle class kid into a hedge fund founder? Even better, donations will flow. The Ivy Leagues do not serve the "public good" as most Americans understand the concept. And really they never have.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Almost Missouri

    Okay since we’re really getting down to this, then let’s get down to this.

    For the record, I have no real personal interest in gassing on about the Harvard scene, but since:

    a) it preoccupies an unusual amount of the Sailersphere’s world, and
    b) it does occupy a significant amount of the public’s time, and given its reach and influence, that is not a crazy matter to attend to; and
    c) lots of people, as attested to here, seem to have a really strange almost pathological conception of what actually goes on there…

    Let me clear a few things up. Unlike most of you, I actually went there, and I actually made the scene, so lemme tell you how it is.

    First things first…

    — You have to understand, it was a different scene decades ago, this would NEVER happen now, but back then I was your prime-A candidate: working-class white-ethnic kid, near-perfect SATs, perfect 4.0 GPA from an elite school, poor-boy scholarship kid, kooky extra-curriculars (I was a well-known underground cartoonist), crazy avant-garde stage director, the works.

    — You can’t imagine how much MONEY people threw at me from all over the country: I could have ridden around in a sedan chair at Williams or Stanford, carried by slavegirls who fed me iced coffee and chilled grapes.

    — But when I took a look at Harvard, I saw something different: they offered me not a golden-plated scholarship but a decent fair deal, which included student debt and washing dishes and scrubbing toilet bowls. So, y’know, I accepted.

    — I turned down comfort and security in exchange for hardship and debt, because I knew what Harvard had, which the other schools didn’t have: the secret keys to POWER. And they did not disappoint.

    There’s an inside joke about Harvard: you ignore the professors, and pay very close attention to your fellow students.

    It’s true. Among the people I studied with, some of the professors were kind of cool (the best one was a graduate-student tutor), but the real gasoline came from the other kids: the most life-changing, mind-expanding experiences I had there all came from other students. They’re all household names now, I won’t bore you with who they are.

    But at Williams, you go around taking some good classes and graduate with a magna;

    At Harvard (this really happened to me) you have a pleasant first year and then you get kicked out for being in a drunken brawl and then your House master realizes that you were railroaded and sets you up with a job at MIT designing computer games, and then still as a teenager you co-found an experimental theater company which still exists to this very day, and then you create gigantic psychotic theater productions which gets you a lot of attention in Hollywood.

    Like I say, you learn how Power works.

    • Replies: @onetwothree
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    And all of that led to 5,299 comments on unz.com. Fight Fiercely, Harvard!

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    , @Anonymous
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's funny how half your posts are about how terrible Jews are and the other half (written in a much more sincere and personal style) are about how great Harvard, New York, the artsy-farts who inhabit them, and "avant-garde experimental theater" are. Revealed preference much?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    , @NotAnonymousHere
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Every single g-d m-fing c-sing one of your posts is about how superterrificexcellenttriumphant you are.
    You win the Miles Mathis Medal
    with Jussie Smollett Cluster.
    Dude.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @bomag

  28. @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality
    We don't have a lot of generative culture anymore. Some of the old stuff will stay around due to old white people's nostalgia, plus some young white people will take an interest in it, like ancient ruins that speak to them.

    In the old days, disk jockeys would get bored and play other songs, but I’m sure now MBAs have moneyballed playlists.
     
    Efficiency is important, but people who only optimize without exploring new territory produce stagnation.

    Replies: @bomag

    Efficiency is important, but people who only optimize without exploring new territory produce stagnation.

    Good point; but we’re in a weird era where big biz has routine-ed most of daily life into a bland sameness while the libs/progressives are congratulating themselves for giving us the toxic newness of transgenderism; more addictive drugs; et al.

  29. @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    Mom and Dad.

  30. Back when I last commuted “Don’t Fear the Reaper” had to be the most-played.

    Maybe listeners are old enough now to actually fear the reaper and not just be edgy about it.

    • LOL: Redneck Farmer
  31. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”

    I dare say most taxpayers would settle for the bottom 90% being taught to read, write, do sums, and not be a pain in the arse to have as neighbours.

    If you set up a school and it becomes a good school, the great danger is that everyone wants to go there. — Former Deputy PM John Prescott

  32. @Arclight
    @SFG

    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it's a relic of what are considered better times - before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America's largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture. Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it's never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children. Listening to that genre of music is both nostalgia and a form of escapism.

    There *was* a better time and our rulers killed it stone dead on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of current teens and maybe young 20 somethings keep the classic rock/folk Americana/outlaw country genres going strong as a sort of reaction to mongrelized culture they get stuffed down their throats. No doubt academics will note this and start churning out courses and papers on the oppressiveness and white supremacist elements of its popularity, as it overlooks black blues and guitar pioneers that gifted America with this form of music and are not property acknowledged today.

    I did take some satisfaction in the hate for rap. It's truly music for retards and it's only positive use is in the gym, and even then I can't take it for long.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Goddard, @Anon

    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it’s a relic of what are considered better times – before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America’s largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture.

    Sometime during the early summer of 2020, I saw an article somewhere (can’t find it now) to the effect that classic pop music of the 70s were the then currently most downloaded songs on Spotify and other platforms, even by younger people. The article attributed it to the sudden desire by so many people for comfort and nostalgia (even nostalgia for a time before they were born) by people plunged into Corona Lockdown World. Of course, the Lockdown regime was the most bizarre, alienating, and dystopian social experiment ever imposed on …………….. well, on the entire World. It f**ked with a lot of people’s minds and left them all running to the Bee Gees and Ambrosia for a little solace.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Arclight
    @Mr. Anon

    Thanks. I think along with that is that to appropriate a phrase, it offers a 'safe space' for whites as well, both mentally and in reality if you go to a show. Going to see a rock concert in which you are surrounded by thousands of similar people and an almost zero chance of violence is nice. Going to say an NBA game with pounding rap music throughout and preening ghetto people is something else. You'd have to be insane to go to an actual rap concert - even my teenage son who listens to some of that stuff when asked by a friend to go to one was like "there is no way, I value my life."

  33. SiriusXM has a channel they call Mom Jeans. Enough said. They play it on our main street in the mornings. Sirius has also been playing “Night Moves” and “Paradise By the Dashboard Light”, which are not exactly family-friendly. The sex-in-a-car genre is as dated as the regretful astronaut one (Bowie, Elton, Nilsson) of a few years earlier.

    “Lounge” was fun while it lasted. Though Jack Jones ribbed them, saying in his day nobody wanted to play the lounge, they all aimed for the main room.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    @Reg Cæsar

    Many of the Sirius stations have the same problem every AM station ever had: It's the same songs over and over again. And over...and over...z-z-z-z.

  34. other than rap/hip hop, i like or love much music from all the listed genres, with the qualifier that i loathe the excessive and often artificial percussion that mars so much of what’s been released in the past thirtyish years and the casual nihilism in songs like You Light Up My Life.

    my favorite current act is Scott Bradlee’s Postmodern Jukebox. Mr. Bradlee’s schtick is that he makes arrangements of pop songs in older styles that are wildly different than the popular version, an example is a setting of My Heart Will Go On that emulates Jackie Wilson.

    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    @DenverGregg

    Wasn't Debby Boone an overtly Christian artist and the "You" Jesus Christ himself? Where's the nihilism?

    Replies: @DenverGregg

  35. In the old days, disk jockeys would get bored and play other songs, but I’m sure now MBAs have moneyballed playlists.

    They evidently have. Classic Rock and Pop stations seem to play the same 20 or so songs over and over. They must have calculated what playlist minimizes their outlays on royalties. They also have a lot more commercials than they used to and the ads have gone noticeably down-market – personal injury attorneys, title-pawn outfits, etc. That’s because only poor people (or really cheap people) listen to broadcast radio anymore.

    Get off the dial, Steve. Sirius isn’t that expensive – you can afford it – and you’ll have a lot more music to listen to (Sirius deep cut channels play almost everything).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon


    That’s because only poor people (or really cheap people) listen to broadcast radio anymore.
     
    You could be right. However, I am sceptical that only offering advertisers access to poor and/or cheap people would be enough to keep a radio station going in a major metropolitan market in the US.

    Admittedly, there was a time when I did think terrestrial radio was on its way out. However, between the remaining mom-and-pop operations and non-commercials entities like university stations, I came around to the view that there still truly is "something for everyone," provided you are willing to set up a decent antenna and take the time to tune around to see what you can find.


    Sirius isn’t that expensive – you can afford it – and you’ll have a lot more music to listen to (Sirius deep cut channels play almost everything).
     
    What kind of financial condition is Sirius in in the 2020s? For a time, Sirius seemed likely to implode, but I have not followed their financials since shortly after the XM merger.

    Offhand, it appears Sirius' viability hinges primarily on the willingness of new car manufacturers to install their receivers in new cars. Should that willingness ever evaporate (i.e. car manufacturer start pushing their own subscription-based entertainment services à la Tesla), it isn't clear to me whether their are enough stand-alone receivers to keep them financially viable.
  36. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    “We should not romanticize obesity. You’re not finding your truth. You’re finding diabetes.”

    Don’t worry, our corporate pharmaceutical racket has just come out with “The little pill with the big fat story to tell!” to solve that problem…and they’ve been bribing the TV networks and billionaire media owner-political donor class to not look into the ripoff of Americans by the pharmaceutical racket. What else can these endless prescription drug ads be other than a payoff since nobody has the legal authority to go out and purchase any of this stuff? It’s not being advertised to consumers which should be a red flag, when you get sick your doctor sends you to the pharmacy to pickup whatever they choose, not you. It’s all a big, legal bribe to the 500 failing TV networks not to run any 60 minute type exposes on the damage to the economy by the bloated health care racket.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  37. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Okay since we're really getting down to this, then let's get down to this.

    For the record, I have no real personal interest in gassing on about the Harvard scene, but since:

    a) it preoccupies an unusual amount of the Sailersphere's world, and
    b) it does occupy a significant amount of the public's time, and given its reach and influence, that is not a crazy matter to attend to; and
    c) lots of people, as attested to here, seem to have a really strange almost pathological conception of what actually goes on there...

    Let me clear a few things up. Unlike most of you, I actually went there, and I actually made the scene, so lemme tell you how it is.

    First things first...

    -- You have to understand, it was a different scene decades ago, this would NEVER happen now, but back then I was your prime-A candidate: working-class white-ethnic kid, near-perfect SATs, perfect 4.0 GPA from an elite school, poor-boy scholarship kid, kooky extra-curriculars (I was a well-known underground cartoonist), crazy avant-garde stage director, the works.

    -- You can't imagine how much MONEY people threw at me from all over the country: I could have ridden around in a sedan chair at Williams or Stanford, carried by slavegirls who fed me iced coffee and chilled grapes.

    -- But when I took a look at Harvard, I saw something different: they offered me not a golden-plated scholarship but a decent fair deal, which included student debt and washing dishes and scrubbing toilet bowls. So, y'know, I accepted.

    -- I turned down comfort and security in exchange for hardship and debt, because I knew what Harvard had, which the other schools didn't have: the secret keys to POWER. And they did not disappoint.

    There's an inside joke about Harvard: you ignore the professors, and pay very close attention to your fellow students.

    It's true. Among the people I studied with, some of the professors were kind of cool (the best one was a graduate-student tutor), but the real gasoline came from the other kids: the most life-changing, mind-expanding experiences I had there all came from other students. They're all household names now, I won't bore you with who they are.

    But at Williams, you go around taking some good classes and graduate with a magna;

    At Harvard (this really happened to me) you have a pleasant first year and then you get kicked out for being in a drunken brawl and then your House master realizes that you were railroaded and sets you up with a job at MIT designing computer games, and then still as a teenager you co-found an experimental theater company which still exists to this very day, and then you create gigantic psychotic theater productions which gets you a lot of attention in Hollywood.

    Like I say, you learn how Power works.

    Replies: @onetwothree, @Anonymous, @NotAnonymousHere

    And all of that led to 5,299 comments on unz.com. Fight Fiercely, Harvard!

    • LOL: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @onetwothree

    Let me ask you... has a total stranger ever come up to you on the street and kissed you and said, Thank you for doing that! Has anybody from a foreign country ever sent you a thank-you note? Has anybody ever said to you, I don't really know precisely what that WAS, but I do know that it changed my life.
    -- Anyone? Bueller?

    Yeah you and me, let's grab a drink and compare notes some time.

    Meanwhile, keep counting somebody else's internet comments, I'm sure that's a great pastime.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @onetwothree

    Oh, don't be a jackass for your whole life.

    Do you have any idea in the world who wrote this? Yeah, sure, you can say the name in the credit like any good monkey can, but do you KNOW who Lou Reed was? Some time I'll tell you my hilarious Lou Reed taxicab story, if you're worth it.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa9nN3G2CSg

    That song was written by Lou Fucking Reed. Do you know who Lou Reed is? Do you know that he was tortured with electric-shock treatments by his own parents when he was a teenager, because they were trying to "cure" him from being gay?


    And anyone who's ever had a dream.
    And anyone who's ever had a heart.
    And anyone who's ever been lonely.
    And anyone who's ever been... torn apart.


    What do you think you know about anyone, EVER?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgGjUSEWss


    What do you think you know about me? (And yeah, six steps ahead of ya, no, I'm not gay, and I'm not coming out here online for heaven's sakes.)

    Didn't see YOU behind the gas station garbage bin on Wilshire. Didn't see you at the Emmys either.

    What exactly do you think you know about things?

    Replies: @Brutusale

  38. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an interesting article about "stuck culture."

    https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/culture-stuck

    The problem with being down so long is that it will start looking like up to you. If you are under the age of 30 you may think things are normal. But to someone who has lived 3 decades or more you may notice something odd: we haven’t had a shift like we did in the past. Culture is frozen. Throughout the 20th century we had changes almost every decade. Changes in fashion, in music, in aesthetics, hairstyles, style of comedy, television shows and movies. It sort of felt like someone was directing society from the top down, dictating a big shift every 10 years to something new. A director. If I show you a photo or play you a song from the 20th century, you’d probably be able to guess the decade. It was that clean of a break.

     


    Old songs now represent 70% of the US music market.
     

    The new music market is actually shrinking. All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. The current list of most downloaded tracks on iTunes is filled with the names of bands from the last century.

    In the past few years alone, a few companies have snapped up music rights related to artists including Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Shakira, John Lennon, and Dire Straits. By acquiring music rights, these companies can reap the money from royalties, licensing, brand deals, and other revenue streams that would have gone to the artist. These contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    There are millions of songs and artists on various streaming sites. People are overwhelmed. They are going back to the media monoculture of the 20th century.
     
    https://twitter.com/PaulSkallas/status/1756986484400214182

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @res, @Muggles, @Ancient Mason

    This books was very prescient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Tail_(book)

    Written by former Wired Magazine editor Chris Anderson nearly twenty years ago, it predicted the decline of the mass-market for ‘hits’ in favor of a proliferation of niche markets instead. The 20th century was the age of hits, while the 21st is the age of the niches … apparently filled with the hits of yesteryear.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
  39. @Dave Pinsen
    In the ‘80s in New York, the oldies station would play songs from the ‘50s, while today they’ll play stuff from the ‘80s. I guess they would have gone back further in the ‘80s except that the ‘50s were the dawn of rock, and probably not many listeners straddled ‘50s rock and ‘40s big band music.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Not Raul, @Joe Stalin

    The BBC actually did play stuff from the 1920s and 1930s, as long as there was a reasonable cohort of listeners from that era still alive. As a student I went through a 20s music phase so would sometimes listen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_Band_Days

    Indeed I can remember from my childhood the music show “Sing Something Simple” would go back as far as Victorian music hall songs and parlour ballads – stuff like “Just A Song At Twilight”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple

    “The programme ended partly because Cliff Adams died that year and partly because of Radio 2’s repositioning to appeal to the former Radio 1 audience.”

  40. My father is about two weeks older than Steve, but all the music I listened to growing up was out before he got to college: Simon and Garfunkel, The Clancy Brothers, Schooner Fair, The Beatles and Elton John. Dad hated Bob Dylan and the Stones, but one time I made him listen to a greatest of Bruce Springsteen, and he said if he’d had the money in college to go the Springsteen concert he missed freshman year, his life might have been different. Maybe he would be more like Steve.

    Nevertheless, I’m very proud of my father: He never smoked marijuana, no, not once. And he didn’t quite score a 1590 on the SAT, but the Commandment of the Marine Corps told him no one had ever scored higher on the Aviation Selection Test Battery (ASTB) when he took it in college. (My grandma said they spent the next five years banging down the door trying to get them to get him to sign up.)

    I was thinking about classic rock lately because all dad listens to now is classical music and maybe some Frank Sinatra. Seems to me that senior citizens who still enjoy rock and roll are, well, stuck in the 60s and 70s. Example: Joe Biden was reported to be preoccupied with how, during the lockdown, “young people were able to make love.” Time to grow up, fellas.

  41. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an intriguing analysis of the music industry.

    https://akinokure.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-mirage-of-raps-popularity-how.html

    The mirage of rap's popularity: How streaming stats mislead vs. sales and airplay

     


    Looking over the top 100 songs for 2020, I was struck yet again by how much rap there is. I've noticed this for the past several years, and figured I was just out of touch with that area of pop music, since I don't listen to rap radio stations, don't know anyone who's really into rap, and don't go to clubs that play rap. Still, it just seemed like a growing presence that was not my cup of tea.

    But having studied the seismic shift that streaming has had on the music culture, I can finally make some sense of it. Rap is in fact a niche genre, with a few crossover hits to mainstream audiences. However, the media elites who construct the chart formulas have put their thumb on the scale in order to over-emphasize rap's popularity and influence, at the expense of truly popular genres like pop, country, and dance.

    The formal trick they use is giving substantial weight to streaming stats, which do not distinguish between breadth vs. depth of exposure. And popularity is about breadth of exposure across the entire music-listening population, not the depth of devotion among fans who expose themselves repeatedly to the song, as opposed to casual fans who expose themselves to it far fewer times.

    So if you too were wondering why there's so much emphasis on rap in the media, you weren't crazy. It's another example of woke representation practices, meant to buy off the "talented tenth" of African-Americans, who get employment in the entertainment sector, and placate the bottom 90% of them with cultural cred -- rather than the entertainment and media elites using their high status to lobby the Democrats into providing desperately needed public goods and services.

     





    First, a clarification -- the Billboard charts are a product of the media sector, not entertainment. The record labels produce the music, the artists perform it, and various other channels distribute it to the audience (radio stations, clubs, streaming platforms, etc.). Billboard is more of a trade publication than a cultural commentary one, but it's still part of the media sector, albeit the entertainment-focused media.

    So, this is not a case of the production side making a ton of rap songs that nobody wants to listen to. Nor is it the distributors taking a niche genre and foisting it on users of their platforms like YouTube, radio stations, and so on. Those two sides are too driven by the cold, hard laws of supply & demand to attempt to deliver a bunch of stuff that is largely unwanted.

    However, the media who describe and comment on entertainment are under no such constraints. Or rather, their supply & demand laws are different because their audience is not listeners of music per se, but readers of music-themed discourse. Their audience wants to read takes, and spit out takes of their own, which is orthogonal to what types of music they enjoy listening to.

    It's perfectly possible, then, for Billboard to mischaracterize the state of supply & demand in the music industry, if doing so will satisfy the cravings of discourse junkies. It would be wrong to call this "foisting" their narrative onto the music-listening public, because the typical music fan probably never looks at the Billboard charts. Those who do consume media commentary on music, though, evidently eat up the narrative about how influential rap is, so the media outlets are not foisting the misleading description onto their audience either -- they're just supplying the demand for a certain narrative.

    But if you do want an overall accurate picture of what the zeitgeist is like, out of curiosity, just bear in mind that the media chart creators can and do rig the outcome in order to please their target audience above all else. It won't be totally outta whack, since such a picture would not even be plausible, and the audience wants the illusion of reality as well as the ideologically soothing distortions. Still, something to take into account.


    * * *


    Now, the basic problem. For the 2020 Hot 100 chart, I count 30-some rap songs. Not a majority, but still a sizable share. And to anyone who's been in touch with music this year, way too many. What gives?

    Well, the Hot 100 chart is actually made up of several component charts. The three with heaviest weighting are sales of singles (i.e. digital downloads), radio airplay, and streaming plays. As of 2013, these carry weightings of 35-45%, 30-40%, and 20-30%, respectively, and the weightings change week to week.

    The shifting weekly weightings is the first obvious sign that the chart creators are using these stats to rig the desired outcome, otherwise the weightings would stay the same in order to judge all songs by the same set of standards. In one week, one weighting will accomplish the goal of maximizing rap at the expense of pop, dance, and country, while a different weighting will be needed for another week, since each week's batch of songs perform somewhat differently relative to one another.

    For example, if the sales stats favor pop over rap by a huge amount in week 1, and to a lesser degree in week 2, then the chart-riggers will have to give a lower weight to sales in week 1 than in week 2.

    Let's turn to Billboard's Digital Songs sales chart, of which their website lists only the top 75. For the 2020 chart, I count about 10 of the rap songs that are also on the Hot 100 chart, and several others that are not. Scaling that to a list of 100 by sales, that would be about 15-20 rap songs -- in other words, only half as many as actually appear on the Hot 100 chart.

    Not only is rap less pervasive on the sales chart, but big hit songs you've been hearing all year do in fact show up, while they're mysteriously missing from the Hot 100 chart. "Kings and Queens" by Ava Max, "Midnight Sky" by Miley Cyrus, and "Stupid Love" by Lady Gaga in the dance genre. "Lover" and "Cardigan" by Taylor Swift in the adult contempo genre. And a slew of country songs I don't recognize because I'm not in the target demographic. Again, that's only for the 75 songs listed on their website; if they had a full list of 100, there would be more staples of the zeitgeist in those genres that were kept out of the Hot 100.

    When I looked over the sales chart, it felt 10 times more familiar than what's listed on the Hot 100 chart. And that's not just from what I seek out deliberately -- it's from what I hear in any public place that plays music, what's on while changing radio stations, what's popular on Tik Tok trends, what a popular streamer like Pokimane plays in the background while chatting, what anyone is talking about, what online memes refer to... literally every source of pop culture other than the music media itself.

    There is a heavy overlap between the sales and Hot 100 charts, since the big-picture narrative from the Hot 100 chart cannot be totally divorced from reality. Still, it's striking how disoriented a normal music listener -- who doesn't care about woke ideology being reflected in the list -- would get from there being a sizable minority of fake rap songs shoehorned in, and the same number of actually popular dance / pop / country songs erased from the record.


    * * *


    As for radio airplay, Billboard doesn't list their top 100 songs online, but by genre it must reflect the distribution of radio station listenership size by genre (called a "format"). See Nielsen's overview of the top radio formats at the end of 2019.

    There is no dedicated rap or hip-hop format, but they are included under the urban contemporary and (to a lesser degree) the urban adult contemporary formats. So however well those formats do, rap must do worse, since urban contempo (and especially urban AC) also includes a bunch of R&B songs.

    Among music stations playing current music, the formats with the largest listenership size are adult contempo, country, and pop, followed by hot AC and urban AC, with urban contempo lagging down with Mexican regional. Notice that this is the opposite ranking of which genres are artificially boosted on the Hot 100 chart.

    Even more telling is the fact that Mexican regional does not get over-represented on the Hot 100, despite the potential wokeness cred that the chart-riggers could enjoy from doing so, and despite it being as popular or more so on the radio than rap. However, the cultural commentators and their audiences don't find Mexican culture interesting, other than the food, and they don't feel as strong of a need to "heal historical traumas" or "correct the historical record" by amplifying recognition of Mexican culture today, as compared to African-American culture.

    The same goes for the Spanish contempo format, which is about as popular as rap (if not urban contempo as a whole, due to R&B's popularity), and is as popular as alternative. But listening to reggaeton enough to have an opinion on it one way or another, let alone actually dancing to it in a club with thicc-booty Cuban girls, would absolutely mortify the dorky white liberal males who control the music-themed media sector, and make up most of the audience as well.

    "Spanish music" is still too dance-oriented and corporeal for it to appeal to the cerebral types who are take junkies and media consumers. There's no pretension in the lyrics about "telling a larger story," "raising awareness," etc., and there's no raw angsty attitude like in modern rap, which in many ways has become the black version of punk -- non-musical angst, verbal focus, and a basic beat without melodic instruments.

    When rap is (slightly) more melodic, dance-oriented, and aimed at dudes and dudettes grinding on each other in a club, rather than individuals stewing in angst alone in their room, music media people lose all interest. Suddenly it's just a pretext for animalistic booty-shaking. Like all good cerebrals, they only condone sex-having and lust in music if it's centered around boobs (elevating) rather than butts (sinful).


    * * *


    That leaves only streaming as the component of the Hot 100 that must be artificially boosting the popularity of rap, and diminishing that of pop, dance, and country. This component reflects all the big platforms -- YouTube, Spotify, et al.

    The first problem with streaming is the youth bias: 55% of Spotify users are aged 18-34. And in Nielsen's radio listenership article, urban contempo skyrockets to 4th place in that age group, while Mexican regional and Spanish contempo lag far behind. Giving greater weight to streaming means giving rap more representation compared to pop, country and Spanish-language music.

    But there's a far greater distortion that comes from using streaming stats. Billboard uses the total number of plays across streaming media (in the US), which could be a lot of people listening a few times each (a broadly popular fad song), or a few diehards listening to it over and over again (a niche song that will last forever in the fanbase).

    That makes streaming unlike sales of songs, where one sale could be listened to one time or one million times -- it's still measuring the song's exposure to just one individual. Diehard fans do not skew the overall results by listening to their purchases many times more than casual fans who bought the same song. Total sales of a song = total individuals exposed directly.

    And it's also unlike radio airplay, which takes audience size into account. They use the share of radio listeners tuned into a certain station for at least 5 minutes during a 15-minute interval. If a song is played in that interval, that audience size is about how many people were exposed to the song.

    Even if someone tunes into the station and hears that song every day, it doesn't skew the overall results because they aren't adding to the audience size by tuning in every day -- it's roughly the same size from one week to the next. Diehard fans may be tuning in every day, while casual fans only listen some days of the week -- but the total size stays about even because some casual fans who are absent on one day are made up for by other casual fans who are tuning in that day. (And when those casuals tune out later in the week, the casuals who were tuned out earlier in the week show up to replace them.)

    So if anything, radio airplay is skewed more by casual listeners than by diehard fans, since the total number of casual listeners is hardly all present on any given day. Thus, the station's listenership is larger than it would appear from a snapshot in time. And assuming some song is a regular in the station's playlist throughout the week, it's reaching a broader audience than it would appear from a snapshot. Like sales, radio airplay measures breadth rather than depth.

    The streaming stats could be made accurate by measuring the total number of unique individuals who played the song during a given interval, regardless of how many times they played it. Spotify could do that, since their users have to have downloaded the app and be signed in. But YouTube does not require you to even have an account, let alone be signed in, to search for and play videos. And big hits get in the 100s of millions of views on YouTube (albeit globally), so that is no small problem with aggregating streaming stats across all platforms.

    I guess YouTube could try tracking how many unique IPs within the US played a video in a given interval, regardless of number of times played. But they're not doing that.

    And the larger point is they don't want to -- it would ruin their goal of over-representing rap in the Hot 100 chart, to construct the narrative of how influential a certain part of African-American culture is in the broader society. Using youth-biased streaming stats, with a substantial and shifting weighting, and measuring total plays rather than audience size, are just the technical means toward the end of narrative construction.
     

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Anon Cubed, @R.G. Camara, @The Last Real Calvinist, @Anon

    Supposedly, rap really took off when point of sale tracking started in the early 90s for music. More rap than rock records were being sold.
    Also country, which freaked out certain entertainment types even worse.

  42. @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    “What were they in rebellion against?”

    Many of the punk rockers I knew in the late seventies disliked hippies. Rather than elaborate rock operas, they liked simple stripped down music like fifties rockabilly. Sartorially, they looked more like a fifties James Dean, Marlon Brando or Elvis than going around in the elaborate garb the hippies wore.

    People now tend to think of Boomers as one group but there was a big gap between someone born in the late forties and someone born in the early sixties. They ended up with very different tastes and even political beliefs. Late Boomers were more cynical and pessimistic. There was a big difference between “All You Need is Love” and “Anarchy in the U.K.”.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    @Mark G.

    Where I lived the punk rockers and hippies hated the disco 💃 crowd mainly because the aforementioned group couldn’t dance or were socially awkward. If you were young what was not to like about the disco era.

    Cue: Do You Wanna Go Party by KC And Sunshine Band. The radio never plays this banger, but chooses That’s The Way I Like It or Get Down Tonight instead. This tune was so fine in 79.

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @Corpse Tooth
    @Mark G.

    "Many of the punk rockers I knew in the late seventies disliked hippies."

    Punk's most endearing trait: hating those sleazy dirtbags. Still doesn't make up for their lack of musicianship.

  43. @Peter Akuleyev
    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz, "hating jazz" seems to be a trope in a lot of pop culture. Or maybe it's an English thing:

    https://youtu.be/C8lrpSk0XYI?si=sMnIPODi6Kv_YFmi

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Corpse Tooth, @Jonathan Mason

    Jazz tends to suffer (like certain pop/rock/country/hip-hop groups/artists) from being told endlessly by A Certain Kind of Fan that it’s Good For You to like this, or else.

  44. @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    What’s it like to be a living Boomer Meme?

  45. @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    I would guess most respondents answered “like it” unless they really didn’t like it, even if they never listen the the genre. I think most people now consider music from the 80s and early 90s like Van Halen and Aerosmith classic rock.

  46. In what category does new wave (Blondie, Talking Heads, The Clash) fit?

    • Replies: @Redneck Farmer
    @nglaer

    Classic Rock and/or Classic Alternative.

  47. Winslow, Arizona actually has “Standing on a Corner … in Winslow, Arizona” on their welcome sign. That’d be like Harrisburg putting “Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk” on theirs…

    (Rockville MD has “Please come back to … Rockville”) [REM deep cut]

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @The Only Catholic Unionist


    That’d be like Harrisburg putting “Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk” on theirs…
     
    Better brags for Harrisburg would be "Route 66" (Bobby Troup) and "Free Ride" (Dan Hartman).

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @obwandiyag

    , @Gary in Gramercy
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    The Clash also name-checked Harrisburg ("The Clampdown" from London Calling) more than a decade before Kraftwerk's remix and rewritten lyrics for "Radio Activity" (on 1991's The Mix). I have a hunch there are other Harrisburg mentions, but can't think of them right now.

    Rockville (MD) had -- for almost 25 years -- Yesterday and Today Records, a great store where Peter Buck would have been proud to work.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  48. bomag says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @Almost Missouri

    Solutions.

    To lower housing prices, stop immigration and build a HUGE number (tens of millions) of new homes. Then home prices will fall dramatically. You could even offer discount mortgages to married America-born citizen middle-class couples with kids. That'd raise fertility & marriage rates, while making it much more affordable.

    Lowering the cost of university education is possible too.

    We can have general cognitive tests for generic entry-level positions and specialized tests for the professions (engineer, accountant, pilot, etc.). Then hire the highest scorers, regardless of whether they have a degree. It’s meritocratic, fair, and results-oriented. It’d ensure no discrimination by race, gender, orientation, etc. There are studies that show that standardized test scores are more highly with job performance than any other characteristic. Hiring by test would increase the competence of all the employees hired and ensure that we have the best quality workforce.

    This would eliminate the need for people to travel hundreds (often thousands) miles away to some university and live on campus. People could learn the necessary skills & knowledge (for the test for the jobs that they desired) through online classes, community colleges, or self-teaching. This would be far less expensive and more convenient, while eliminating the need to take extraneous classes. Students could also probably finish their studies far more quickly. You could still attend a 4-year university if your parents had the money and you wanted the "university experience," but doing so wouldn't be necessary for most jobs. It's your test score, not credential, that determines whether you get hired.

    To summarize, my administration would do the following.

    -Stop all immigration.
    -Build tens of millions of new homes.
    -Offer discount mortgages to America-born middle-class married citizen couples with kids, to boost fertility & marriage rates.
    -Hire by standardized test, instead of by college degree.

    Simple solutions. Massive societal benefits.

    Replies: @bomag, @Twinkie, @guest007, @guest007

    Good suggestions.

    Build tens of millions of new homes.

    If economics worked as advertised, I’d think we’d be in the middle of a massive building boom. But as Thomas Malthus suspected, there eventually comes a limiting factor to human existence, and it could well be space where people wants to live.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @bomag

    Yes, and "space where people want to live" includes safe, civic-minded neighbors who celebrate the same holidays. We're not making any more of that.

  49. bomag says:
    @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    Looks like a case of having a positive opinion of classical music, but not listening to it.

    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious?

    Agree.

    Either its listeners are a golden demographic to which advertisers cater; or the numbers are faked for the usual corporate reasons.

  50. Fortunately, Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations

    KCRW is probably the best radio station in America in the last 50 years for off-brand music that gets no airtime anywhere. That and In n Out–LA, take a bow.

  51. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    Thanks! I now don’t have to watch it.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie

    It's only 18 minutes and it goes quickly, and mostly entreatingly (Galloway is a marketing professor for a reason). And given that it's viewership has doubled with another million-odd views in the last 24 hours, you can get the new hot issues that will infect this election season and beyond at the source now, however mistaken I think his remedies are.

    But the real news that I meant to convey with the comment is that the themes any iSteve reader is familiar with are now entering the mainstream (through the TED Talk side door, lol), though they are already being freighted with irrelevant or counter-productive "solutions". So: two steps forward, one step back, and possibly too late in any case, but the iSteve keeps happening.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  52. @Anonymous
    Why is World music dead last? Yanni is one of the most popular performers of all time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jf75E4dTDY

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Almost Missouri, @Vlad III

    Why is World music dead last? Yanni is one of the most popular performers of all time.

    The survey was about “which genres of music are most popular with Americans

  53. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Almost Missouri

    Solutions.

    To lower housing prices, stop immigration and build a HUGE number (tens of millions) of new homes. Then home prices will fall dramatically. You could even offer discount mortgages to married America-born citizen middle-class couples with kids. That'd raise fertility & marriage rates, while making it much more affordable.

    Lowering the cost of university education is possible too.

    We can have general cognitive tests for generic entry-level positions and specialized tests for the professions (engineer, accountant, pilot, etc.). Then hire the highest scorers, regardless of whether they have a degree. It’s meritocratic, fair, and results-oriented. It’d ensure no discrimination by race, gender, orientation, etc. There are studies that show that standardized test scores are more highly with job performance than any other characteristic. Hiring by test would increase the competence of all the employees hired and ensure that we have the best quality workforce.

    This would eliminate the need for people to travel hundreds (often thousands) miles away to some university and live on campus. People could learn the necessary skills & knowledge (for the test for the jobs that they desired) through online classes, community colleges, or self-teaching. This would be far less expensive and more convenient, while eliminating the need to take extraneous classes. Students could also probably finish their studies far more quickly. You could still attend a 4-year university if your parents had the money and you wanted the "university experience," but doing so wouldn't be necessary for most jobs. It's your test score, not credential, that determines whether you get hired.

    To summarize, my administration would do the following.

    -Stop all immigration.
    -Build tens of millions of new homes.
    -Offer discount mortgages to America-born middle-class married citizen couples with kids, to boost fertility & marriage rates.
    -Hire by standardized test, instead of by college degree.

    Simple solutions. Massive societal benefits.

    Replies: @bomag, @Twinkie, @guest007, @guest007

    Then home prices will fall dramatically.

    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don’t have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Twinkie

    " is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit"

    Have to disagree here.

    I'd love it if house prices in the UK halved tomorrow, because then my kids might be able to buy houses NOW.

    Most people, by the time both their parents are gone, are nearing the end of childbearing years. I was a later starter than most, and by the time both parents were dead my youngest was about seven.

    It's no good inheriting when you're 55, you need money to support a house and family when you're 35.

    , @bomag
    @Twinkie

    The suggestion isn't to zero out home values. It's along the lines of a utility: necessary item with a somewhat inelastic supply (especially homes in nice areas.) It can be prone to unreasonable inflation.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Twinkie



    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don’t have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.
     
    I usually agree with your comments Twinkie, but this one is silly. It reeks of some weird Scroogeish "sit on my pile of gold" attitude. Houses do not exist to be a financial asset they are a place for families to live.

    First off, old folks sitting in a paid off home should not be--at all--the group national policy looks after. A nation survives by making sure the young coming up are healthy, productive and able--and oriented to--have build families, have children to carry the nation forward.

    But beyond that what the hell difference does the inflated value of a home make ... if you have or care about your children?

    I've got a couple of paid for houses worth ballpark 2.5-3ish. Peachy--in theory. But what I--being normal--actually care about is my children. It doesn't make any difference if these houses are worth a million plus or 300k each if I'm going to hand them over--directly or indirectly--to my kids. And I've got three kids, so much easier/better if it's the smaller nut to cover a house for kid number 3. (Not to mention we have to live somewhere in the interim as well.) And beyond my kids--fortunate to have parents with some assets--there's all the other American kids! If they work hard and keep their nose clean, they are suppose to be able to afford the American dream as well.

    No houses, cars, computers, clothing, food, energy ... becoming more affordable is better. Especially houses, as we want our kids to be able to afford them, so they can have their families and carry on our nation.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @res
    @Twinkie


    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?
     
    This is a difficult issue. A generalization is how do you handle a market which has been incredibly distorted due to external forces? For an even better example see the California household solar market right now, way to create a "market" dependent on government largesse.

    The challenge here is how to reconcile these two points.
    1. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.
    2. Many more people (the relative numbers matter! this involves political decisions) have seen huge paper gains for their housing. And for some of those people it is not just paper. They paid cold hard cash (and/or made binding loan commitments) at those prices.

    How do we unwind that? Any suggestions?

    Then there is 3. Various deep pocketed investors are also in category 2.
    And they have political influence.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  54. I heard a few years ago that Every Breath You Take is the most played song on radio, not sure if that was at the moment or a cumulative total of breaths.

    Thin Lizzy is not bad but I’d have to guess that the annoying The Boys Are Back in Town is number two. Doodle lee doo doo, doodle lee doo doo, doodle lee doodle lee doodle lee doodle lee doodle lee doo doo …

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Known Fact

    Thin Lizzie not in top 10...

    1. “Every Breath You Take” (The Police)
    2. “Brown Eyed Girl” (Van Morrison)
    3. “You’ve Lost that Lovin’ Feelin’” (The Righteous Brothers)
    4. “Yesterday” (The Beatles)
    5. “Never My Love” (The Association)
    6. “You Really Got Me” (The Kinks)
    7. “Stand by Me” (Ben E. King)
    8. “Layla” (Eric Clapton)
    9. “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” (Tears for Fears)
    10. “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You” (Frankie Valli)

    https://radiofidelity.com/the-12-most-played-songs/

  55. OT: Remember Elizabeth Holmes?

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/tech/elizabeth-holmes-prison-release-date/index.html

    Girl is still working her charms:

    Disgraced former Theranos CEO Elizabeth Holmes could be out of prison several months earlier than expected, according to the projected release date posted by the Bureau of Prisons.

    The Bureau of Prisons’ online database currently shows that Holmes’ expected release date from a Texas prison is August 16, 2032 — a slight reduction from her previous release date of December 29, 2032.

    It’s her second reduction in less than a year: She previously had her 11-year-and-three-month sentence by about two years last July.

    Holmes is currently serving out her sentence at Federal Prison Camp Bryan, a minimum security federal prison camp that is approximately 100 miles from Houston.

    Her looks have suffered – understandably – due to the turmoil in her life:

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    due to the turmoil in her life
     
    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn't she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.

    Her looks have suffered
     
    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she'll always be technically insolvent.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b90768ef617db69be45eb8ab6e0f4f7a7e1166aa/0_82_3511_2108/master/3511.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Gallatin, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

  56. I listen to Classic Rock stations and a station that plays a little everything from pop to rock to soul,etc.
    from the 70s, 80s, 90s.

    Tunes I hear most often on the radio?

    Back In Black by AC/DC a lot. Would rather hear Long Way To The Top (If You Wanna Rock & Roll)

    Go your own way by Fleetwood Mac and Stand Back by Stevie Nicks. Rather hear Rhiannon but Stand Back is a good choice for Stevie, perhaps, I Can’t Wait more often.

    Eagles. Still Hotel California played the most often here.

    Aerosmith and Dream On, prefer Sweet Emotion.

    Stones? Probably Start Me Up or Miss You, not exactly their best tunes IMO. Rather hear Honky Tonk Woman or Bitch.

    Pat Benatar? Hit Me With Your Best Shot. Hmm, give me Shadows Of The Night.

  57. @Mark G.
    @anonymous

    "What were they in rebellion against?"

    Many of the punk rockers I knew in the late seventies disliked hippies. Rather than elaborate rock operas, they liked simple stripped down music like fifties rockabilly. Sartorially, they looked more like a fifties James Dean, Marlon Brando or Elvis than going around in the elaborate garb the hippies wore.

    People now tend to think of Boomers as one group but there was a big gap between someone born in the late forties and someone born in the early sixties. They ended up with very different tastes and even political beliefs. Late Boomers were more cynical and pessimistic. There was a big difference between "All You Need is Love" and "Anarchy in the U.K.".

    Replies: @Trinity, @Corpse Tooth

    Where I lived the punk rockers and hippies hated the disco 💃 crowd mainly because the aforementioned group couldn’t dance or were socially awkward. If you were young what was not to like about the disco era.

    Cue: Do You Wanna Go Party by KC And Sunshine Band. The radio never plays this banger, but chooses That’s The Way I Like It or Get Down Tonight instead. This tune was so fine in 79.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Trinity

    Truer words were never spoken. In 1976 or 1980, if you weren't intimidated by pretty girls, you at least pretended to like Disco.

  58. @SFG
    Another one with high dislike ratings is hard rock /metal. That one had more of a blue-collar white following, so I suspect we’re going to find some fans here. (Myself included to some degree-I’ve got quite a bit of Rammstein, Metallica, and Iron Maiden on my playlist, though some of the more intense obscure metal is too much for me.)

    Probably aggressive music like punk, heavy metal, and rap is easier to hate; something like New Age just makes people say ‘meh; boring’.

    The exception is Christian contemporary, which is hated because it has taken a side in the culture war, much like rap. Punk was quite political as well, but has probably declined because being a masculine white guy isn’t cool anymore on the left.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Arclight, @Known Fact

    If Metal and Christian are so widely disliked, imagine the plight of Christian Metal groups like Stryper. My wife actually thought I was making stuff up when I told her Christian Metal really is a thing, and there’s really a song called To Hell With the Devil. I will spare you the full version …

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Known Fact

    Thanks for this trip down memory lane . . . BTW, do you know why they're called 'Stryper'? It's an allusion to Isaiah 53:5, i.e. 'with his stripes we are healed'.

    After 35 years, I am still not quite sure if this is edifying or blasphemous, or maybe both.

    Replies: @Known Fact

  59. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an intriguing analysis of the music industry.

    https://akinokure.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-mirage-of-raps-popularity-how.html

    The mirage of rap's popularity: How streaming stats mislead vs. sales and airplay

     


    Looking over the top 100 songs for 2020, I was struck yet again by how much rap there is. I've noticed this for the past several years, and figured I was just out of touch with that area of pop music, since I don't listen to rap radio stations, don't know anyone who's really into rap, and don't go to clubs that play rap. Still, it just seemed like a growing presence that was not my cup of tea.

    But having studied the seismic shift that streaming has had on the music culture, I can finally make some sense of it. Rap is in fact a niche genre, with a few crossover hits to mainstream audiences. However, the media elites who construct the chart formulas have put their thumb on the scale in order to over-emphasize rap's popularity and influence, at the expense of truly popular genres like pop, country, and dance.

    The formal trick they use is giving substantial weight to streaming stats, which do not distinguish between breadth vs. depth of exposure. And popularity is about breadth of exposure across the entire music-listening population, not the depth of devotion among fans who expose themselves repeatedly to the song, as opposed to casual fans who expose themselves to it far fewer times.

    So if you too were wondering why there's so much emphasis on rap in the media, you weren't crazy. It's another example of woke representation practices, meant to buy off the "talented tenth" of African-Americans, who get employment in the entertainment sector, and placate the bottom 90% of them with cultural cred -- rather than the entertainment and media elites using their high status to lobby the Democrats into providing desperately needed public goods and services.

     





    First, a clarification -- the Billboard charts are a product of the media sector, not entertainment. The record labels produce the music, the artists perform it, and various other channels distribute it to the audience (radio stations, clubs, streaming platforms, etc.). Billboard is more of a trade publication than a cultural commentary one, but it's still part of the media sector, albeit the entertainment-focused media.

    So, this is not a case of the production side making a ton of rap songs that nobody wants to listen to. Nor is it the distributors taking a niche genre and foisting it on users of their platforms like YouTube, radio stations, and so on. Those two sides are too driven by the cold, hard laws of supply & demand to attempt to deliver a bunch of stuff that is largely unwanted.

    However, the media who describe and comment on entertainment are under no such constraints. Or rather, their supply & demand laws are different because their audience is not listeners of music per se, but readers of music-themed discourse. Their audience wants to read takes, and spit out takes of their own, which is orthogonal to what types of music they enjoy listening to.

    It's perfectly possible, then, for Billboard to mischaracterize the state of supply & demand in the music industry, if doing so will satisfy the cravings of discourse junkies. It would be wrong to call this "foisting" their narrative onto the music-listening public, because the typical music fan probably never looks at the Billboard charts. Those who do consume media commentary on music, though, evidently eat up the narrative about how influential rap is, so the media outlets are not foisting the misleading description onto their audience either -- they're just supplying the demand for a certain narrative.

    But if you do want an overall accurate picture of what the zeitgeist is like, out of curiosity, just bear in mind that the media chart creators can and do rig the outcome in order to please their target audience above all else. It won't be totally outta whack, since such a picture would not even be plausible, and the audience wants the illusion of reality as well as the ideologically soothing distortions. Still, something to take into account.


    * * *


    Now, the basic problem. For the 2020 Hot 100 chart, I count 30-some rap songs. Not a majority, but still a sizable share. And to anyone who's been in touch with music this year, way too many. What gives?

    Well, the Hot 100 chart is actually made up of several component charts. The three with heaviest weighting are sales of singles (i.e. digital downloads), radio airplay, and streaming plays. As of 2013, these carry weightings of 35-45%, 30-40%, and 20-30%, respectively, and the weightings change week to week.

    The shifting weekly weightings is the first obvious sign that the chart creators are using these stats to rig the desired outcome, otherwise the weightings would stay the same in order to judge all songs by the same set of standards. In one week, one weighting will accomplish the goal of maximizing rap at the expense of pop, dance, and country, while a different weighting will be needed for another week, since each week's batch of songs perform somewhat differently relative to one another.

    For example, if the sales stats favor pop over rap by a huge amount in week 1, and to a lesser degree in week 2, then the chart-riggers will have to give a lower weight to sales in week 1 than in week 2.

    Let's turn to Billboard's Digital Songs sales chart, of which their website lists only the top 75. For the 2020 chart, I count about 10 of the rap songs that are also on the Hot 100 chart, and several others that are not. Scaling that to a list of 100 by sales, that would be about 15-20 rap songs -- in other words, only half as many as actually appear on the Hot 100 chart.

    Not only is rap less pervasive on the sales chart, but big hit songs you've been hearing all year do in fact show up, while they're mysteriously missing from the Hot 100 chart. "Kings and Queens" by Ava Max, "Midnight Sky" by Miley Cyrus, and "Stupid Love" by Lady Gaga in the dance genre. "Lover" and "Cardigan" by Taylor Swift in the adult contempo genre. And a slew of country songs I don't recognize because I'm not in the target demographic. Again, that's only for the 75 songs listed on their website; if they had a full list of 100, there would be more staples of the zeitgeist in those genres that were kept out of the Hot 100.

    When I looked over the sales chart, it felt 10 times more familiar than what's listed on the Hot 100 chart. And that's not just from what I seek out deliberately -- it's from what I hear in any public place that plays music, what's on while changing radio stations, what's popular on Tik Tok trends, what a popular streamer like Pokimane plays in the background while chatting, what anyone is talking about, what online memes refer to... literally every source of pop culture other than the music media itself.

    There is a heavy overlap between the sales and Hot 100 charts, since the big-picture narrative from the Hot 100 chart cannot be totally divorced from reality. Still, it's striking how disoriented a normal music listener -- who doesn't care about woke ideology being reflected in the list -- would get from there being a sizable minority of fake rap songs shoehorned in, and the same number of actually popular dance / pop / country songs erased from the record.


    * * *


    As for radio airplay, Billboard doesn't list their top 100 songs online, but by genre it must reflect the distribution of radio station listenership size by genre (called a "format"). See Nielsen's overview of the top radio formats at the end of 2019.

    There is no dedicated rap or hip-hop format, but they are included under the urban contemporary and (to a lesser degree) the urban adult contemporary formats. So however well those formats do, rap must do worse, since urban contempo (and especially urban AC) also includes a bunch of R&B songs.

    Among music stations playing current music, the formats with the largest listenership size are adult contempo, country, and pop, followed by hot AC and urban AC, with urban contempo lagging down with Mexican regional. Notice that this is the opposite ranking of which genres are artificially boosted on the Hot 100 chart.

    Even more telling is the fact that Mexican regional does not get over-represented on the Hot 100, despite the potential wokeness cred that the chart-riggers could enjoy from doing so, and despite it being as popular or more so on the radio than rap. However, the cultural commentators and their audiences don't find Mexican culture interesting, other than the food, and they don't feel as strong of a need to "heal historical traumas" or "correct the historical record" by amplifying recognition of Mexican culture today, as compared to African-American culture.

    The same goes for the Spanish contempo format, which is about as popular as rap (if not urban contempo as a whole, due to R&B's popularity), and is as popular as alternative. But listening to reggaeton enough to have an opinion on it one way or another, let alone actually dancing to it in a club with thicc-booty Cuban girls, would absolutely mortify the dorky white liberal males who control the music-themed media sector, and make up most of the audience as well.

    "Spanish music" is still too dance-oriented and corporeal for it to appeal to the cerebral types who are take junkies and media consumers. There's no pretension in the lyrics about "telling a larger story," "raising awareness," etc., and there's no raw angsty attitude like in modern rap, which in many ways has become the black version of punk -- non-musical angst, verbal focus, and a basic beat without melodic instruments.

    When rap is (slightly) more melodic, dance-oriented, and aimed at dudes and dudettes grinding on each other in a club, rather than individuals stewing in angst alone in their room, music media people lose all interest. Suddenly it's just a pretext for animalistic booty-shaking. Like all good cerebrals, they only condone sex-having and lust in music if it's centered around boobs (elevating) rather than butts (sinful).


    * * *


    That leaves only streaming as the component of the Hot 100 that must be artificially boosting the popularity of rap, and diminishing that of pop, dance, and country. This component reflects all the big platforms -- YouTube, Spotify, et al.

    The first problem with streaming is the youth bias: 55% of Spotify users are aged 18-34. And in Nielsen's radio listenership article, urban contempo skyrockets to 4th place in that age group, while Mexican regional and Spanish contempo lag far behind. Giving greater weight to streaming means giving rap more representation compared to pop, country and Spanish-language music.

    But there's a far greater distortion that comes from using streaming stats. Billboard uses the total number of plays across streaming media (in the US), which could be a lot of people listening a few times each (a broadly popular fad song), or a few diehards listening to it over and over again (a niche song that will last forever in the fanbase).

    That makes streaming unlike sales of songs, where one sale could be listened to one time or one million times -- it's still measuring the song's exposure to just one individual. Diehard fans do not skew the overall results by listening to their purchases many times more than casual fans who bought the same song. Total sales of a song = total individuals exposed directly.

    And it's also unlike radio airplay, which takes audience size into account. They use the share of radio listeners tuned into a certain station for at least 5 minutes during a 15-minute interval. If a song is played in that interval, that audience size is about how many people were exposed to the song.

    Even if someone tunes into the station and hears that song every day, it doesn't skew the overall results because they aren't adding to the audience size by tuning in every day -- it's roughly the same size from one week to the next. Diehard fans may be tuning in every day, while casual fans only listen some days of the week -- but the total size stays about even because some casual fans who are absent on one day are made up for by other casual fans who are tuning in that day. (And when those casuals tune out later in the week, the casuals who were tuned out earlier in the week show up to replace them.)

    So if anything, radio airplay is skewed more by casual listeners than by diehard fans, since the total number of casual listeners is hardly all present on any given day. Thus, the station's listenership is larger than it would appear from a snapshot in time. And assuming some song is a regular in the station's playlist throughout the week, it's reaching a broader audience than it would appear from a snapshot. Like sales, radio airplay measures breadth rather than depth.

    The streaming stats could be made accurate by measuring the total number of unique individuals who played the song during a given interval, regardless of how many times they played it. Spotify could do that, since their users have to have downloaded the app and be signed in. But YouTube does not require you to even have an account, let alone be signed in, to search for and play videos. And big hits get in the 100s of millions of views on YouTube (albeit globally), so that is no small problem with aggregating streaming stats across all platforms.

    I guess YouTube could try tracking how many unique IPs within the US played a video in a given interval, regardless of number of times played. But they're not doing that.

    And the larger point is they don't want to -- it would ruin their goal of over-representing rap in the Hot 100 chart, to construct the narrative of how influential a certain part of African-American culture is in the broader society. Using youth-biased streaming stats, with a substantial and shifting weighting, and measuring total plays rather than audience size, are just the technical means toward the end of narrative construction.
     

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Anon Cubed, @R.G. Camara, @The Last Real Calvinist, @Anon

    Awaiting some Diddy exposé about how rap changed and what that did to performers and listeners.

  60. Anon[105] • Disclaimer says:

    Interestingly, I would guess that one of the big differences between classic rock and what used to be called oldies is that there are very few black artists in classic rock. Oldies radio had the various Motown/Mussel Shoals/Brill Building black crossover hits – like the Temptations, Aretha Franklin and girl groups like the Shirelles. Classic rock doesn’t have similar black representation.

  61. @Old Prude
    What kind of bull sh** list is this? No Bluegrass? No Zydeco? No Tuvan Throat Warbeling? And Rap isn’t even music.

    And who listens to the radio nowadays? I didn’t know the thing was still around. Just turn on Pandora and down vote any song you’ve grown to hate.

    Replies: @Tom F., @Sparkon

    SXM.

    re: Tuvan throat singing, I’m sure you’ve seen the documentary ‘Genghis Blues’ concerning Paul Pena (RIP) the Frisco blues singer, who wrote ‘Jet Airliner’ and Steve Miller made it a hit!

  62. anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:

    why does tucker carlson no longer do monologues?

  63. @Anonymous
    Why is World music dead last? Yanni is one of the most popular performers of all time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jf75E4dTDY

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Almost Missouri, @Vlad III

    Wait, this is World Music?

    I hate that too.

    I thought World Music was stuff like soukous d’afrique, maskanda, música sertaneja, Celtic medieval revival, etc.

  64. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    2023 US Population = 335 million
    1983 US Population = 235 million

    https://tinyurl.com/3dvn9jyp

  65. radio died a long time ago so i wouldn’t use the current state of music radio as a gauge of anything. nobody is listening. it went thru the same thing television is going thru now, but 20 years ago. would be like trying to evaluate what television was like during the golden age by trying to see what’s playing in 2024.

    Rick Beato has some videos about the decline of music radio in earnest starting around 1997 or so when congress changed various (FCC?) laws and then it was legal for one company to own 50 radio stations… which they promptly did, turning them all into the same station in 1 year. i’ve posted about this stuff many times. i lived thru this and was working in radio in NYC at the time and can verify most of what Beato says. things went downhill quickly in the late 90s and were well over by the mid 00s.

    • Thanks: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @prime noticer

    I worked in radio for many years and can tell you it was the telecom bill of 1994 signed by Bill Clinton. The ironic thing is radio was just an afterthought in the bill, it was mostly about TV and cable yet it had a larger impact on radio than any other media.

    Companies were all the sudden allowed to own multiple stations in as many cities as they wanted. Clear Channel (now known as iheart) bought the most stations. This consolidation took away much of the competition and stations didn't try as hard anymore. At this same time new technology was available to pre record (and soon replace) radio DJs. At first radio companies said they would just use this pre recording (called voice tracking ) on fringe times like overnights.

    It didn't take long before stations started voice tracking nearly 24/7. Not only that, companies would use out of state DJs to record breaks for many stations across the country, often pretending they are local but actually hundreds or thousands of miles away. Losing the live and local aspect of radio was taking away its #1 advantage and it couldn't have taken place at a worse time as all kinds of new technology was being introduced to compete with radio. This has been going on for a long time now and time spent listening to radio has plummeted.

    Now here is the real reason you hear so much old music on the radio. The older audience is pretty much all that's left. A lot of young people don't even know what radio is. They didn't grow up with it. Stations that target a young audience get terrible ratings today. Classic hits, classic rock and soft rock (Adult Contemporary) stations get excellent ratings from the shrinking and aging pool of people who still listen to the radio.

  66. Anonymous[142] • Disclaimer says:
    @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    it’s fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    What makes this the likely answer is the fact that almost anytime you’re in traffic near a car playing rap, a driver who’s alone has his passenger side windows down for no reason, e.g. when the weather is cool.

  67. @Twinkie
    OT: Remember Elizabeth Holmes?

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/tech/elizabeth-holmes-prison-release-date/index.html

    Girl is still working her charms:

    Disgraced former Theranos CEO Elizabeth Holmes could be out of prison several months earlier than expected, according to the projected release date posted by the Bureau of Prisons.

    The Bureau of Prisons’ online database currently shows that Holmes’ expected release date from a Texas prison is August 16, 2032 — a slight reduction from her previous release date of December 29, 2032.

    It’s her second reduction in less than a year: She previously had her 11-year-and-three-month sentence by about two years last July.
     

    Holmes is currently serving out her sentence at Federal Prison Camp Bryan, a minimum security federal prison camp that is approximately 100 miles from Houston.
     
    Her looks have suffered - understandably - due to the turmoil in her life:

    https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/gettyimages-1258295915.jpg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    due to the turmoil in her life

    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn’t she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.

    Her looks have suffered

    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she’ll always be technically insolvent.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Almost Missouri

    "It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn’t she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman."

    Yes, but her pregnancies were a cynical strategy to elicit sympathy from the judge/jury, and knowing what we know about her (megalomaniac?) she might not have any real emotional connection to those kids, or care about them at all.

    This person deserves no sympathy for her choices.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Gallatin
    @Almost Missouri

    She is downright fugly without cosmetics.

    , @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri


    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point.
     
    I was being sarcastic. She is the greatest tech "adventuress" of all time. The value that she destroyed boggles one's mind.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Almost Missouri


    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she’ll always be technically insolvent.
     
    She can always do what OJ did and move to Florida, to enjoy a huge "homestead" exemption from judgments. You don't think he was there for the sun, do you?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  68. No. 33 kind of anticipated my own question. Also, would “jazz” include performers like Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett? Am not quite sure where performers of the Great American Songbook fit it.

  69. Anonymous[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Okay since we're really getting down to this, then let's get down to this.

    For the record, I have no real personal interest in gassing on about the Harvard scene, but since:

    a) it preoccupies an unusual amount of the Sailersphere's world, and
    b) it does occupy a significant amount of the public's time, and given its reach and influence, that is not a crazy matter to attend to; and
    c) lots of people, as attested to here, seem to have a really strange almost pathological conception of what actually goes on there...

    Let me clear a few things up. Unlike most of you, I actually went there, and I actually made the scene, so lemme tell you how it is.

    First things first...

    -- You have to understand, it was a different scene decades ago, this would NEVER happen now, but back then I was your prime-A candidate: working-class white-ethnic kid, near-perfect SATs, perfect 4.0 GPA from an elite school, poor-boy scholarship kid, kooky extra-curriculars (I was a well-known underground cartoonist), crazy avant-garde stage director, the works.

    -- You can't imagine how much MONEY people threw at me from all over the country: I could have ridden around in a sedan chair at Williams or Stanford, carried by slavegirls who fed me iced coffee and chilled grapes.

    -- But when I took a look at Harvard, I saw something different: they offered me not a golden-plated scholarship but a decent fair deal, which included student debt and washing dishes and scrubbing toilet bowls. So, y'know, I accepted.

    -- I turned down comfort and security in exchange for hardship and debt, because I knew what Harvard had, which the other schools didn't have: the secret keys to POWER. And they did not disappoint.

    There's an inside joke about Harvard: you ignore the professors, and pay very close attention to your fellow students.

    It's true. Among the people I studied with, some of the professors were kind of cool (the best one was a graduate-student tutor), but the real gasoline came from the other kids: the most life-changing, mind-expanding experiences I had there all came from other students. They're all household names now, I won't bore you with who they are.

    But at Williams, you go around taking some good classes and graduate with a magna;

    At Harvard (this really happened to me) you have a pleasant first year and then you get kicked out for being in a drunken brawl and then your House master realizes that you were railroaded and sets you up with a job at MIT designing computer games, and then still as a teenager you co-found an experimental theater company which still exists to this very day, and then you create gigantic psychotic theater productions which gets you a lot of attention in Hollywood.

    Like I say, you learn how Power works.

    Replies: @onetwothree, @Anonymous, @NotAnonymousHere

    It’s funny how half your posts are about how terrible Jews are and the other half (written in a much more sincere and personal style) are about how great Harvard, New York, the artsy-farts who inhabit them, and “avant-garde experimental theater” are. Revealed preference much?

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    Oh I don't know.

    You seem like sort of a thoughtful fellow, let's step into this a bit if you don't mind.

    I dunno, people who don't want to hear a long, windy, rather tiresome self-justification may want to hit IGNORE right about.... now.

    I knew by the time I was five years old that I was an artist, that my job was going to be to make beautiful things -- and not only that they were beautiful, but that they were spiritual in a way, things that you should contemplate, and consider, and come away from with something in your bag which was particular; and that was the only thing I was ever cut out for. It's sort of why people unintentionally freak out when they see me on the street -- lots of people make cool things, but I make COOL things. When I was a kid my father, who never even graduated high school, used to call me up out of the basement to watch a no-hitter on TV, he knew I would get it like I got a Bob Wilson opera: "Look at this -- there is NOTHING going on! The pitchers are duelling, and NOTHING is happening! It's great!!" I got it right away.

    That is why I did everything that I did -- in furtherance of this insane goal, to make things which people could not understand, but which they somehow, under the table, DID understand. WHY is the Shakespeare girl wearing a nylon stocking for a mask and sitting on top of a refrigerator like the Cheshire Cat when it's 90 degrees and there's a Frank Zappa song playing?! WHY is the lunatic kid doing those strange impossible flips on a skateboard in Greenpoint? WHAT'S with all the car headlights in the middle of the night in a schoolyard in Brooklyn?! Why is Lorne Michaels always so mad at me?! It's why strangers come up to me and kiss me on the street. Yeah, sure, whatever, I went to fancy scholarship schools, and then I had not one but two nervous breakdowns, and then slept on the street on Ventura Blvd and in Mexican movie theatres, and behind the 24/7 convenience store at Wilshire and Barrington (Steve probably knows where it is... maybe he even gave me spare change.) While working in ERs... hell, you want to talk about a third nervous breakdown.

    It was all to serve something else, something I can't put a finger on. All I know is, I would die if I didn't do it. And I know from the thank-you letters in my desk drawer from all over the world that other people would have died if I didn't do it, too. The late great Hal Wilner told me so.

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    If you think when you hear this, that you are just hearing some groovy 70s white chick having a bop on the piano, then we aren't really hearing the same thing....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6913KnbMpHM


    Same way, if you hear this and don't realize how terrifying it is, or why, then, same deal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLtn0V4u15o


    Like the Jerky Boys used to say, I'll bring all my glasses. And all my shoes. So I have dem.

    DAN AYCKROYD, 1970s: You look at the floor, and all you see is the floor. I look at the floor, and what I see is MOLECULES.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @The Germ Theory of Disease

  70. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don't have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @bomag, @AnotherDad, @res

    ” is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit”

    Have to disagree here.

    I’d love it if house prices in the UK halved tomorrow, because then my kids might be able to buy houses NOW.

    Most people, by the time both their parents are gone, are nearing the end of childbearing years. I was a later starter than most, and by the time both parents were dead my youngest was about seven.

    It’s no good inheriting when you’re 55, you need money to support a house and family when you’re 35.

  71. Steve has correctly identified the concept which i call the “Music Wall”. like a cultural black hole, things beyond a certain year never escape. although for music sales, the wall is around 1980. nothing from the 70s or earlier sells anymore. diamond albums from the early 80s and later continue to sell at a good rate. we are witnessing the somewhat unexpected disappearance of Led Zeppelin, like a black hole going thru Hawking radiation. something that seemed eternal is finally evaporating. nobody cares about them anymore, an event which i never thought i would see.

    there is also a general cultural wall with very few things from before the early 80s making any kind of appearance today, following my ideas about peak cultural output being between 1980 and 2000 or so. but this focus on the 80s and 90s leads to the derivative, ever looking backwards alterno timeline we’re on now, where media outlets just keep making rehashes of stuff from the 80s and 90s, but worse.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @prime noticer

    Sirius/XM has channels devoted to the decades going back to the 1940s; so there appears to be some market for older "pop" stuff.

    I routinely scroll up and down the dial; strangest thing is I don't hear any Warren Zevon.

  72. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Almost Missouri


    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    It may be Galloway's mission, but it has never been the mission of Harvard, Yale, etc. Those schools were created in the 17th century to provide an elite caste of Protestant ministers, and in some sense that is still how they see their mission - educating the elites of tomorrow. Harvard has no interest in turning a talented working class white boy from a dysfunctional family into a solid middle class father living a nice life in the suburbs. That transformation earns Harvard no clout in the halls of power nor real future donations. If Harvard can turn an impoverished black girl into an eloquent angry activist that will have the ear of the media, congressmen and CEOs - well that is worth doing, from the institution's point of view. Turning a private school attending upper middle class kid into a hedge fund founder? Even better, donations will flow. The Ivy Leagues do not serve the "public good" as most Americans understand the concept. And really they never have.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Almost Missouri

    Mostly agree, but there was a mid-20th century interregnum (perhaps best personified by James Bryant Conant, whom The Atlantic used to lionize, believe it or not) where Harvard really did try to find the diamonds in the rough out in flyover country, and really did discuss its role as part of a democratic nation. It won’t say “nation” anymore and only invokes “democracy” in the inverted, authoritarian way that the rest of the Establishment uses it now, but Galloway is hearkening back to something that really did exist for while. Indeed, he himself is a late-stage product of it, which is probably part of why he is emotional about the subject.

  73. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    Ergo is peddling nonsense, even if pointing out what a disaster has unfolded.

    Immigration is essentially *the* issue. There is finance “industry” skimming, neoliberalism, the swollen super-state and of course other toxic minoritarian garbage–e.g. BLM and peddling the anti-sex QWERTY++ disease. But immigration is the incredible hulk.

    The 1970s weren’t that great a time to enter the workforce–the lead Boomers had sucked up the goodies already and the 60s boom was over–but the competition for jobs and housing was “my fellow Americans” not “the world”. So putting together a decent life was tractable from profession, to middle class, to working class. All that was required was hard work–not being a complete idiot, screw up, druggie, criminal.

    If we had skipped the immigration insanity and were a nation of 250 we’d still have that today. Heck, even if we’d just stop the “must have immigration!” lunacy right now affordable family formation for our young folks would immediately start getting better and get radically better in over the next generation.

    But pile the other 8 billion people on their chest, yeah it’s hard to breathe.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @AnotherDad

    Agree. It's hard to give too much credit to someone who talks about a problem, points out some contributing factors to it, but leaves out the most important factor of all as it's politically inconvenient. Admittedly, we have conservative commenters like Ann Coulter and Heather Mac Donald who will talk about black dysfunction but won't touch the third rail of IQ difference. I'm not ready to blame them for that, as doing so is social suicide, while I think it's still permissible to talk about the negative impact of mass immigration. Also, there's no solution to IQ differences while there is a solution for immigration.

  74. If I show you a photo or play you a song from the 20th century, you’d probably be able to guess the decade.

    This is so true and a fascinating comment on the lack of discernable style or flair thus far in the 21st century — 2024 looks a lot like 2014 or 2008, aside from the masks of course. It’s not just the clothes, the hair, the cars themselves but there is no particular photographic style to depicting them, while previous decades had “a look” on both sides of the lens

  75. Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.

    A 2017 article. Wonder how things are now.

    I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30

    A rough calc puts the ratio at more like 5/4.

  76. res says:
    @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    Thanks. Glad to see someone promoting that sort of analysis. This struck me.

    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”

    Is “higher ed” really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school? And for the rest focus on making high school better. It really should not take four years of tertiary education to (fail to) learn algebra.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @res



    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    Is “higher ed” really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school?
     
    In fairness, he's talking about income--i.e. parental income--not test scores. I.e. social mobility.

    But I agree with your point--even moreso. Really going off for academic study is only really useful for people with the skills/orientation for it. I'd say for today's population, the top 25%ish sounds about right.

    What we really need instead of sending half the kids off to college is competency tests where kids can demonstrate what they've got upstairs, basic competency and subject matter competency they can work toward in any manner (self-study, on-line, the library) they choose not just "college". As well as lots of opportunity for technical education in the skilled trades.

    Replies: @res, @guest007

  77. @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri

    Thanks! I now don't have to watch it.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    It’s only 18 minutes and it goes quickly, and mostly entreatingly (Galloway is a marketing professor for a reason). And given that it’s viewership has doubled with another million-odd views in the last 24 hours, you can get the new hot issues that will infect this election season and beyond at the source now, however mistaken I think his remedies are.

    But the real news that I meant to convey with the comment is that the themes any iSteve reader is familiar with are now entering the mainstream (through the TED Talk side door, lol), though they are already being freighted with irrelevant or counter-productive “solutions”. So: two steps forward, one step back, and possibly too late in any case, but the iSteve keeps happening.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Almost Missouri


    entreatingly
     
    That was supposed to be "entertainingly".

    And maybe it's two steps forward, three steps back.

    We'll see.
  78. there seems to be a sharp dividing line determining which oldies are too old, at least during drive time, set at about 52 years ago. I’m guessing that radio stations figure people first imprint on new music at age 13 and retire from daily commuting at age 65.

    It’s not just about the age of the listeners. Music from before circa 1970 just “sounds old” due to advances in recording and amplification technology that took place in the late 60s and early 70s. Listen to, say, All Day and All of the Night (1964), even remastered, and it sounds very old-timey compared to, say, The Contenders or anything else on Lola vs Powerman (1970). Compare A Hard Day’s Night to Abbey Road. Compare Out of Our Heads to Sticky Fingers or Exile. Compare the Yardbirds to Zeppelin.

    To someone born in the 80s or 90s, music from roughly 1970 onward will sound “modern” even though they weren’t born when it came out, whereas music from before 1970 (or 1968 maybe) will generally sound tinny and old fashioned.

  79. res says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an interesting article about "stuck culture."

    https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/culture-stuck

    The problem with being down so long is that it will start looking like up to you. If you are under the age of 30 you may think things are normal. But to someone who has lived 3 decades or more you may notice something odd: we haven’t had a shift like we did in the past. Culture is frozen. Throughout the 20th century we had changes almost every decade. Changes in fashion, in music, in aesthetics, hairstyles, style of comedy, television shows and movies. It sort of felt like someone was directing society from the top down, dictating a big shift every 10 years to something new. A director. If I show you a photo or play you a song from the 20th century, you’d probably be able to guess the decade. It was that clean of a break.

     


    Old songs now represent 70% of the US music market.
     

    The new music market is actually shrinking. All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. The current list of most downloaded tracks on iTunes is filled with the names of bands from the last century.

    In the past few years alone, a few companies have snapped up music rights related to artists including Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Shakira, John Lennon, and Dire Straits. By acquiring music rights, these companies can reap the money from royalties, licensing, brand deals, and other revenue streams that would have gone to the artist. These contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    There are millions of songs and artists on various streaming sites. People are overwhelmed. They are going back to the media monoculture of the 20th century.
     
    https://twitter.com/PaulSkallas/status/1756986484400214182

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @res, @Muggles, @Ancient Mason

    What do you think of his two reasons?

    So what’s going on. Why is culture stuck? I have two arguments

    1) We lived in a 20th century media monoculture where the culture changed every decade from the top down. This was done by the handful of radio stations, television stations, hollywood and fashion houses. Then, the real internet came along in 2005 and decentralized everything. All of a sudden, small groups online have innovated and changed. But the big media monoculture has stayed the same. Why? Because the current model makes money, and why change it? Why risk it? Not everyone is going along with you like the previous century where people had no choice.

    2) Algorithms

  80. @Anonymous
    Saying all that, I would a million times rather listen to some of PIL's (Public Image Ltd, Johnny Rotten's vehicle after abandoning the Sex Pistols) most difficult and challenging early output, eg, 'Pop tones', 'Careering', than that mass produced consumer ready packaged anodyne bullshit from the likes of Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran etc.

    Replies: @Corpse Tooth

    Punk is hard on the ears. And there’s a million miles betwixt PIL and GAE hag Taylor Swift.

  81. @AnotherDad
    @Almost Missouri


    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.
     
    Ergo is peddling nonsense, even if pointing out what a disaster has unfolded.

    Immigration is essentially *the* issue. There is finance "industry" skimming, neoliberalism, the swollen super-state and of course other toxic minoritarian garbage--e.g. BLM and peddling the anti-sex QWERTY++ disease. But immigration is the incredible hulk.

    The 1970s weren't that great a time to enter the workforce--the lead Boomers had sucked up the goodies already and the 60s boom was over--but the competition for jobs and housing was "my fellow Americans" not "the world". So putting together a decent life was tractable from profession, to middle class, to working class. All that was required was hard work--not being a complete idiot, screw up, druggie, criminal.

    If we had skipped the immigration insanity and were a nation of 250 we'd still have that today. Heck, even if we'd just stop the "must have immigration!" lunacy right now affordable family formation for our young folks would immediately start getting better and get radically better in over the next generation.

    But pile the other 8 billion people on their chest, yeah it's hard to breathe.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Agree. It’s hard to give too much credit to someone who talks about a problem, points out some contributing factors to it, but leaves out the most important factor of all as it’s politically inconvenient. Admittedly, we have conservative commenters like Ann Coulter and Heather Mac Donald who will talk about black dysfunction but won’t touch the third rail of IQ difference. I’m not ready to blame them for that, as doing so is social suicide, while I think it’s still permissible to talk about the negative impact of mass immigration. Also, there’s no solution to IQ differences while there is a solution for immigration.

  82. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don't have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @bomag, @AnotherDad, @res

    The suggestion isn’t to zero out home values. It’s along the lines of a utility: necessary item with a somewhat inelastic supply (especially homes in nice areas.) It can be prone to unreasonable inflation.

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
  83. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    OT

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39512599

    If you're aged 19-36 and don't own your home, you're probably not reading this in China.

    While young people around the world are struggling to get on the property ladder, an HSBC study found that 70% of Chinese millennials have achieved the milestone.

    A sizeable 91% also plan to buy a house in the next five years, according to the survey.

    The mortgage lender spoke to around 9,000 people based in nine countries.

    While China came out top of the pack, Mexico was next with 46% of millennials owning property, followed by France with 41%.

    In Malaysia, the US, and Canada, just over a third of the age group have bought a house or flat, while in the UK it's 31%.
     
    How come China?

    So how have so many millennials managed to buy their homes?

    For sons in particular, it's down to the Bank of Mum and Dad - and underpinned by the marriage market.

    Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.

    Chinese parents know their sons' chances of marrying well are materially increased if they own a home.

    Dr Jieyu Liu, deputy director of the SOAS China Institute, told the BBC: "It is the custom that husbands will provide a home.

    "As young people's wages are too low, the husband's family is expected to take on the responsibility to purchase the property in their son's name, or pay the deposit.

    "Many love stories fail to turn to marriage if the men fail to provide a marital house."
     
    I smell something bovine. I know there's a shortage of women, but I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30. It sounds as if family formation is just more affordable.

    Replies: @res

    but I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30.

    Not sure where you got that. What I see is.

    Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.

    Here is a population pyramid for China.

    Doing a quick calculation (sum the percentage differences from 20-49 then multiply by total population) I see an imbalance of 2.2% * 1.43e9 = 31.5 million.

    So their quoted statement seems plausible to me.

    Regarding this:

    It sounds as if family formation is just more affordable.

    The opposite appears to be the case.
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/2830656-the-chinese-housing-markets-outrageous-price-to-income-ratio

    In many Chinese cities, the price-to-income ratio for buying a house is between 20:1 and 35:1.

    To put this in perspective, in most areas of the U.S., the price-to-income ratio for buying a house ranges from as little as 0.5:1 to 3:1.

    The “Bank of Mum and Dad” comment seems to be eliding an important point. From the same link.

    The average lower- and even middle-class person can’t buy a house. Only when both adults are working, and Grandma and Grandpa are living with them too, can an average middle-class family try to buy a house.

    They give an interesting link with a table of worldwide cities and their housing affordability.
    https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @res

    My 70/30 comment was a dig at the BBC's view that the driver of house purchases was males needing to own a house to attract a bride from the limited pool of women - as 70% of millennials now own houses, you'd need a very very skewed sex ratio for all the purchasers to be male.

    On affordability, I see three possibilities

    a) HSBC (who provided the figures) are lying

    b) Seeking Alpha are lying

    c) all of them are lying

    Just consider. I keep reading that the savings rates in China are YUGE ("because there's nothing to spend it on!") .

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/022415/top-10-countries-save-most.asp

    "According to latest World Bank figures, China's gross domestic savings rate was 47% in 2022"

    Now that's a huge number - we're in Stalin's Soviet Union during industrialisation territory. Yet this nation of mega-savers are also apparently owning and buying houses. Something in China must be very cheap if your average Wang is saving half his salary. In the UK, for example, it would be literally impossible for the average Brit to do that, as rent/mortgage/water/energy/food probably accounts for 70%-plus of wages before ever they pay a broadband bill.

    Does not compute - you agree?

    Replies: @res

    , @AnotherDad
    @res

    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.

    Also, not sure why you're using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?

    It's self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.

    30-35: 4.3 -- 3.9
    25-30: 3.3 -- 2.9
    20-25: 3.0 -- 2.6

    but it's even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts--below 35 at least--are smaller. A 33 year old Chinese dude settled into a career and trying to court say a 28 year old woman is looking at a cohort gap (4.3 -- 2.9) of over a quarter. Imagine how entitled the girls get with that? Youch!

    The one positive: this should be eugenic. The downside: lots of single men around is not a recipe for social peace.

    The Chinese are boneheads. While frontline--"we've got to reduce our population growth!"--understandable, the math here was very very basic, and the social effects very predictable. The correction should have come at least a couple decades earlier in the 90s--2 children with eugenic "high quality" exemptions for more.

    Then again the Chinese stupidity pales beside the "must have immigration!" inanity of West, much less the full on Maoist level "screw Americans!" open border of the "Biden Administration".

    Replies: @SFG, @YetAnotherAnon, @res

  84. @Peter Akuleyev
    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz, "hating jazz" seems to be a trope in a lot of pop culture. Or maybe it's an English thing:

    https://youtu.be/C8lrpSk0XYI?si=sMnIPODi6Kv_YFmi

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Corpse Tooth, @Jonathan Mason

    I prefer structure: 80% of my music time is Classical. I’m quite the sophisticate. Jazz relies on improvisation which can be somewhat excretory.

  85. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    The Supreme Court has ruled that national service outside of a military draft is unconstitutional.

  86. @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    Trying to find a niche to belong to, that also describes hippies and could be why hippies became punk rockers later on.

    Definitely rebels without a cause acting like 5 year olds.

  87. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Almost Missouri

    Solutions.

    To lower housing prices, stop immigration and build a HUGE number (tens of millions) of new homes. Then home prices will fall dramatically. You could even offer discount mortgages to married America-born citizen middle-class couples with kids. That'd raise fertility & marriage rates, while making it much more affordable.

    Lowering the cost of university education is possible too.

    We can have general cognitive tests for generic entry-level positions and specialized tests for the professions (engineer, accountant, pilot, etc.). Then hire the highest scorers, regardless of whether they have a degree. It’s meritocratic, fair, and results-oriented. It’d ensure no discrimination by race, gender, orientation, etc. There are studies that show that standardized test scores are more highly with job performance than any other characteristic. Hiring by test would increase the competence of all the employees hired and ensure that we have the best quality workforce.

    This would eliminate the need for people to travel hundreds (often thousands) miles away to some university and live on campus. People could learn the necessary skills & knowledge (for the test for the jobs that they desired) through online classes, community colleges, or self-teaching. This would be far less expensive and more convenient, while eliminating the need to take extraneous classes. Students could also probably finish their studies far more quickly. You could still attend a 4-year university if your parents had the money and you wanted the "university experience," but doing so wouldn't be necessary for most jobs. It's your test score, not credential, that determines whether you get hired.

    To summarize, my administration would do the following.

    -Stop all immigration.
    -Build tens of millions of new homes.
    -Offer discount mortgages to America-born middle-class married citizen couples with kids, to boost fertility & marriage rates.
    -Hire by standardized test, instead of by college degree.

    Simple solutions. Massive societal benefits.

    Replies: @bomag, @Twinkie, @guest007, @guest007

    The issue is not building houses but building houses near jobs. As Steve Sailer has pointed out many times, cities like New York or San Francisco have no more land. And living in a high rise condo is not conducive to family formation.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @guest007

    And living in a high rise condo is not conducive to family formation.
    ==
    You could, theoretically, house the population of New York City with conventional quanta of interior space per person and do so in apartment buildings which averaged about six stories. See Thos Sowell on the real estate market in the Bay Area. Prices are inflated due to restrictions on development.
    ==
    Note also that lateral expansion of large metropolitan settlements is still possible. There are counties in northern New Jersey and in the lower Hudson Valley with exurban territory. Geomorphology is a constraint around Los Angeles, not other places.
    ==
    Note also, housing costs in one market can induce businesses to locate elsewhere.

  88. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don't have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @bomag, @AnotherDad, @res

    Then home prices will fall dramatically.

    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don’t have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    I usually agree with your comments Twinkie, but this one is silly. It reeks of some weird Scroogeish “sit on my pile of gold” attitude. Houses do not exist to be a financial asset they are a place for families to live.

    First off, old folks sitting in a paid off home should not be–at all–the group national policy looks after. A nation survives by making sure the young coming up are healthy, productive and able–and oriented to–have build families, have children to carry the nation forward.

    But beyond that what the hell difference does the inflated value of a home make … if you have or care about your children?

    I’ve got a couple of paid for houses worth ballpark 2.5-3ish. Peachy–in theory. But what I–being normal–actually care about is my children. It doesn’t make any difference if these houses are worth a million plus or 300k each if I’m going to hand them over–directly or indirectly–to my kids. And I’ve got three kids, so much easier/better if it’s the smaller nut to cover a house for kid number 3. (Not to mention we have to live somewhere in the interim as well.) And beyond my kids–fortunate to have parents with some assets–there’s all the other American kids! If they work hard and keep their nose clean, they are suppose to be able to afford the American dream as well.

    No houses, cars, computers, clothing, food, energy … becoming more affordable is better. Especially houses, as we want our kids to be able to afford them, so they can have their families and carry on our nation.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @AnotherDad


    Houses do not exist to be a financial asset they are a place for families to live.
     
    That's nice in theory, but the problem is that - for the vast majority of middle class families - a house is the biggest purchase they will ever make and it is pretty much the only source of investment/savings they have. And it's going to be the only major asset that most Americans pass down to their children. That's the reality of the American middle class today. Simply destroying the value of these - their only investments - in the hopes that this would make housing more affordable for the young and, therefore, increase family formation is risky, because it is not guaranteed that lower housing prices will lead to more births. Let me illustrate:

    https://i0.wp.com/japanpropertycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Tokyo-property-price-index-1984-2022.jpg

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WLO_5vAXIgI/TcoKYKUozaI/AAAAAAAAASM/QKrAi3ti8ZQ/s1600/Japan+Fertility+Rate.JPG

    Look at the collapse of real estate property value in Japan from 1990 to 2010. Now look at the fertility pattern during the same time - it continued to fall despite the collapse of home prices. Lower housing price leading to higher family formation (among the young) is a plausible theory, but the evidence is not powerful, because lower family formation in the post-modern era is not simply an economic phenomenon. Back when Audacious Epigone used to blog here actively, he found that only ONE factor had a very robust correlations to fertility - women's education attainment levels.

    This is also borne out in other developed countries. In South Korea, the fertility famously has collapsed to the lowest level in the entire world - concurrently more recent cohorts of South Korean women have college degree attainment rate of 80-90%.


    No houses, cars, computers, clothing, food, energy … becoming more affordable is better.
     
    Unlike all the rest of the items you listed, a house is not a rapidly depreciating consumer good. It's an asset into which people will often invest considerable sums with a strong expectation of long-term appreciation.

    There is a problem or a paradox of sorts here. Young people will buy homes and invest in their communities and the future of the same if they feel that the biggest purchase they will ever make in their lives will grow in value significantly over time (conversely, you don't see people flocking to Detroit or Baltimore despite inexpensive homes). But then if this future finally arrives, then the next generation is "priced out" of the area and will bemoan high prices. But then if you are somehow* able to diminish the value of the existing stock of homes (which, of course, will damage the quality of life by negatively affecting schools and other services that depend on taxes levied on the value of the homes), then it sends a signal to the future (young) prospective buyers that houses are poor investments and will dissuade them from making more durable investments into owning them and putting roots down, forming families, and developing their communities.

    I don't have good answers here. But there should be some thought given to unintended consequences of simplistic policy prescriptions like "lower housing prices."


    It reeks of some weird Scroogeish “sit on my pile of gold” attitude.
     
    My kids have trusts from my wife and me, from my parents and from my wife's parents. My houses could collapse in value to nothing and they will still be better off than 99% of Americans economically. My comment does not originate from "some weird scroogeish" attitude, but from a concern for ordinary Americans for whom their houses are their only significant assets.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

  89. tr says:
    @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    . . .my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    I recently retired from working at a community college. I would often see students wearing Nirvana t-shirts. Cobain would have died a decade before these students were born—It would have been the equivalent of people my age wearing Glen Miller t-shirts.

  90. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Almost Missouri

    Solutions.

    To lower housing prices, stop immigration and build a HUGE number (tens of millions) of new homes. Then home prices will fall dramatically. You could even offer discount mortgages to married America-born citizen middle-class couples with kids. That'd raise fertility & marriage rates, while making it much more affordable.

    Lowering the cost of university education is possible too.

    We can have general cognitive tests for generic entry-level positions and specialized tests for the professions (engineer, accountant, pilot, etc.). Then hire the highest scorers, regardless of whether they have a degree. It’s meritocratic, fair, and results-oriented. It’d ensure no discrimination by race, gender, orientation, etc. There are studies that show that standardized test scores are more highly with job performance than any other characteristic. Hiring by test would increase the competence of all the employees hired and ensure that we have the best quality workforce.

    This would eliminate the need for people to travel hundreds (often thousands) miles away to some university and live on campus. People could learn the necessary skills & knowledge (for the test for the jobs that they desired) through online classes, community colleges, or self-teaching. This would be far less expensive and more convenient, while eliminating the need to take extraneous classes. Students could also probably finish their studies far more quickly. You could still attend a 4-year university if your parents had the money and you wanted the "university experience," but doing so wouldn't be necessary for most jobs. It's your test score, not credential, that determines whether you get hired.

    To summarize, my administration would do the following.

    -Stop all immigration.
    -Build tens of millions of new homes.
    -Offer discount mortgages to America-born middle-class married citizen couples with kids, to boost fertility & marriage rates.
    -Hire by standardized test, instead of by college degree.

    Simple solutions. Massive societal benefits.

    Replies: @bomag, @Twinkie, @guest007, @guest007

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @guest007

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    Is that really that big a deal? Procter & Gamble is famous for the quality of the training it gives its hires. They are trained in every aspect of the business and rotated between brands to have a broader experience. From talking to young people who worked there, I know that a lot of MBAs starting out are happy to take a position at P&G, and after a few years, with an enhanced resumé, look elsewhere for a company they'd rather work for. And, of course, others stay. It seems to work out.

    Replies: @guest007

    , @Almost Missouri
    @guest007

    Supposedly one of the reasons that California hosts the global tech epicenter—and otherwise remains competitive and productive despite its incompetent administration—is that non-compete agreements are void there.

    This does make logical sense. Non-competes are simply a contractual way to suppress employees' wages, signed when employees have inferior bargaining power. Voiding non-competes simply means paying employees what they are worth. Result: California has high wages. There are things wrong with California, but this does not seem to be one of them.

  91. Thanks, Steve; fun post! A refreshing break from daily downer grind of “which noticeable and growing dysfunctional trend will be the first to break everything apart?” posts. Of course, someone will come along in the thread any minute now, and post a “But it was the Jews that did it”, or “How can you ignore what’s going on in Gaza/Ukraine/Taiwan/etc. with your frivolous bulls**t”.

    – Glad to see classical still pulling 60%+ like/love.
    – Category definitions: guessing “classic rock” is as you describe it, Eagles, Stones (’70’s version), Three Dog Night, Guess Who, Fleetwood Mac, etc. from that era. A lot of the categories now are blended; contemporary “country” sounds more like a blend of pop, hip hop, and rock than anything I would consider “country” (i.e. Hank Williams, George Jones, Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton, etc.). Don’t see “bluegrass” as a separate category, so assume it is lumped in with “country”.

    Fortunately, Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations, such as Cal State Northridge’s playing upscale rock, new and old; USC has classical; and Long Beach St. jazz.

    Is there a station near Doheny Way/State Beach and/or N. Doheny Drive, since they both get mentions in Surfin’ USA and Dead Man’s Curve, respectively?

  92. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an interesting article about "stuck culture."

    https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/culture-stuck

    The problem with being down so long is that it will start looking like up to you. If you are under the age of 30 you may think things are normal. But to someone who has lived 3 decades or more you may notice something odd: we haven’t had a shift like we did in the past. Culture is frozen. Throughout the 20th century we had changes almost every decade. Changes in fashion, in music, in aesthetics, hairstyles, style of comedy, television shows and movies. It sort of felt like someone was directing society from the top down, dictating a big shift every 10 years to something new. A director. If I show you a photo or play you a song from the 20th century, you’d probably be able to guess the decade. It was that clean of a break.

     


    Old songs now represent 70% of the US music market.
     

    The new music market is actually shrinking. All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. The current list of most downloaded tracks on iTunes is filled with the names of bands from the last century.

    In the past few years alone, a few companies have snapped up music rights related to artists including Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Shakira, John Lennon, and Dire Straits. By acquiring music rights, these companies can reap the money from royalties, licensing, brand deals, and other revenue streams that would have gone to the artist. These contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    There are millions of songs and artists on various streaming sites. People are overwhelmed. They are going back to the media monoculture of the 20th century.
     
    https://twitter.com/PaulSkallas/status/1756986484400214182

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @res, @Muggles, @Ancient Mason

    The huge Boomer population cohort moves through culture like a deer through a python.

    While Boomers don’t directly buy much music any longer, neither does anyone else.

    And what they like also affects their kids/grand-kids who get exposed to this.

    A recent Rolling Stones concert tour was mostly sold out. They are pushing 80 now…

    So far the only music not to catch on much in the West is Arabic music.

    Thank Allah! If you’ve ever been in a Middle Eastern taxi, you’ve heard it.

    Sounds awful. But I found that eventually I came to tolerate and even enjoy some performers despite the dissonant sounds. Of course I couldn’t understand the lyrics. A lot of female singers back in the 70s.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    @Muggles

    The 1970s and 1980s were loaded with TALENTED female singers. Now? What the hell happened?

  93. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie

    It's only 18 minutes and it goes quickly, and mostly entreatingly (Galloway is a marketing professor for a reason). And given that it's viewership has doubled with another million-odd views in the last 24 hours, you can get the new hot issues that will infect this election season and beyond at the source now, however mistaken I think his remedies are.

    But the real news that I meant to convey with the comment is that the themes any iSteve reader is familiar with are now entering the mainstream (through the TED Talk side door, lol), though they are already being freighted with irrelevant or counter-productive "solutions". So: two steps forward, one step back, and possibly too late in any case, but the iSteve keeps happening.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    entreatingly

    That was supposed to be “entertainingly”.

    And maybe it’s two steps forward, three steps back.

    We’ll see.

  94. @Mark G.
    @anonymous

    "What were they in rebellion against?"

    Many of the punk rockers I knew in the late seventies disliked hippies. Rather than elaborate rock operas, they liked simple stripped down music like fifties rockabilly. Sartorially, they looked more like a fifties James Dean, Marlon Brando or Elvis than going around in the elaborate garb the hippies wore.

    People now tend to think of Boomers as one group but there was a big gap between someone born in the late forties and someone born in the early sixties. They ended up with very different tastes and even political beliefs. Late Boomers were more cynical and pessimistic. There was a big difference between "All You Need is Love" and "Anarchy in the U.K.".

    Replies: @Trinity, @Corpse Tooth

    “Many of the punk rockers I knew in the late seventies disliked hippies.”

    Punk’s most endearing trait: hating those sleazy dirtbags. Still doesn’t make up for their lack of musicianship.

  95. @res
    @Almost Missouri

    Thanks. Glad to see someone promoting that sort of analysis. This struck me.


    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    Is "higher ed" really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school? And for the rest focus on making high school better. It really should not take four years of tertiary education to (fail to) learn algebra.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”

    Is “higher ed” really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school?

    In fairness, he’s talking about income–i.e. parental income–not test scores. I.e. social mobility.

    But I agree with your point–even moreso. Really going off for academic study is only really useful for people with the skills/orientation for it. I’d say for today’s population, the top 25%ish sounds about right.

    What we really need instead of sending half the kids off to college is competency tests where kids can demonstrate what they’ve got upstairs, basic competency and subject matter competency they can work toward in any manner (self-study, on-line, the library) they choose not just “college”. As well as lots of opportunity for technical education in the skilled trades.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @res
    @AnotherDad


    In fairness, he’s talking about income–i.e. parental income–not test scores. I.e. social mobility.
     
    I wasn't sure. The first part of the quote (top 1%) seemed to be about identifying talent. Agreed the second part (bottom 90%) seems more likely to be your interpretation.

    It seems to me that the current scheme of public high school followed by college admissions tests should do a reasonably good job of ability identification across the full income range. There will be dis/advantages for the bottom and top of the income range, but I am not sure how much that can be improved. And in any case, that improvement should be occurring in secondary not tertiary education.

    Agreed with your prescription. I would also add we need more ability to have realistic discussions about career paths for the less capable. Along with more respect for people filling those positions well.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @guest007
    @AnotherDad

    The other issue, as pointed out by Richard Reeves in his book Dream Hoarders, is that for someone to move into the top 10% financially, someone has to fall out. Given how hard families in the top 10% fight to keep their children in the top ten percent, it is much harder to move up. A blue collar families would be better off thinking in terms of two generations instead of one to make the move.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  96. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    due to the turmoil in her life
     
    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn't she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.

    Her looks have suffered
     
    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she'll always be technically insolvent.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b90768ef617db69be45eb8ab6e0f4f7a7e1166aa/0_82_3511_2108/master/3511.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Gallatin, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    “It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn’t she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.”

    Yes, but her pregnancies were a cynical strategy to elicit sympathy from the judge/jury, and knowing what we know about her (megalomaniac?) she might not have any real emotional connection to those kids, or care about them at all.

    This person deserves no sympathy for her choices.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Mike Tre


    Yes, but her pregnancies were a cynical strategy to elicit sympathy from the judge/jury, and knowing what we know about her (megalomaniac?) she might not have any real emotional connection to those kids, or care about them at all.

    This person deserves no sympathy for her choices.
     
    Yeah, she got pregnant in a hurry, didn't she? Right before the prospect of a lengthy incarceration.
  97. res says:
    @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don't have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @bomag, @AnotherDad, @res

    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    This is a difficult issue. A generalization is how do you handle a market which has been incredibly distorted due to external forces? For an even better example see the California household solar market right now, way to create a “market” dependent on government largesse.

    The challenge here is how to reconcile these two points.
    1. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.
    2. Many more people (the relative numbers matter! this involves political decisions) have seen huge paper gains for their housing. And for some of those people it is not just paper. They paid cold hard cash (and/or made binding loan commitments) at those prices.

    How do we unwind that? Any suggestions?

    Then there is 3. Various deep pocketed investors are also in category 2.
    And they have political influence.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @res


    The challenge here is how to reconcile these two points.
    1. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.
    2. Many more people (the relative numbers matter! this involves political decisions) have seen huge paper gains for their housing. And for some of those people it is not just paper. They paid cold hard cash (and/or made binding loan commitments) at those prices.
     
    The first is way, way, way more important than the later. The first is existential. The 2nd is just a debt issue.

    As it is we are inevitably going to have more or less intractable inflation--hopefully moderate, but definitely above the Fed's 2% target. (There simply isn't a credible--in our current political environment--way around more money printing.) And inflation actually helps existing debtors.

    A--fantasy--immigration stop, would be followed by generally moderating house prices while incomes riding inflation catch back up. So the losses to existing home owners wouldn't be a big deal--they benefit by paying their loans with cheaper dollars. The punishment goes to lenders who made long low interest mortgage loans--but those people are already in trouble.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  98. Interesting that classical is ranked as high as it does, evidence that there is still a market for the Old Masters. Rap/hippity-hoppity appears to fall under the “Love It or Hate It” category. No surprises there. It remains unclear to me what the definition of “pop music” other than what it clearly is not (i.e. Latin, “World Music”). Nevertheless, it is ranked second to “Classic Rock” which is itself not defined with any precision.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
  99. @Muggles
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The huge Boomer population cohort moves through culture like a deer through a python.

    While Boomers don't directly buy much music any longer, neither does anyone else.

    And what they like also affects their kids/grand-kids who get exposed to this.

    A recent Rolling Stones concert tour was mostly sold out. They are pushing 80 now...

    So far the only music not to catch on much in the West is Arabic music.

    Thank Allah! If you've ever been in a Middle Eastern taxi, you've heard it.

    Sounds awful. But I found that eventually I came to tolerate and even enjoy some performers despite the dissonant sounds. Of course I couldn't understand the lyrics. A lot of female singers back in the 70s.

    Replies: @Trinity

    The 1970s and 1980s were loaded with TALENTED female singers. Now? What the hell happened?

  100. res says:
    @AnotherDad
    @res



    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    Is “higher ed” really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school?
     
    In fairness, he's talking about income--i.e. parental income--not test scores. I.e. social mobility.

    But I agree with your point--even moreso. Really going off for academic study is only really useful for people with the skills/orientation for it. I'd say for today's population, the top 25%ish sounds about right.

    What we really need instead of sending half the kids off to college is competency tests where kids can demonstrate what they've got upstairs, basic competency and subject matter competency they can work toward in any manner (self-study, on-line, the library) they choose not just "college". As well as lots of opportunity for technical education in the skilled trades.

    Replies: @res, @guest007

    In fairness, he’s talking about income–i.e. parental income–not test scores. I.e. social mobility.

    I wasn’t sure. The first part of the quote (top 1%) seemed to be about identifying talent. Agreed the second part (bottom 90%) seems more likely to be your interpretation.

    It seems to me that the current scheme of public high school followed by college admissions tests should do a reasonably good job of ability identification across the full income range. There will be dis/advantages for the bottom and top of the income range, but I am not sure how much that can be improved. And in any case, that improvement should be occurring in secondary not tertiary education.

    Agreed with your prescription. I would also add we need more ability to have realistic discussions about career paths for the less capable. Along with more respect for people filling those positions well.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @res

    Frankly, even people who probably should get a degree eventually would still be better, more dedicated university students in later life-whether we are talking about 22 or 62-than at 18. The vast sums of money spent on “fat” could go to daycare centers or subsidized cheap housing-payable with student jobs-for people who actually know what they are there for, to study and do research, and who will need to shift in and out of the workforce, full time parenthood, or whatever have you. Isn’t that what a university is supposed to be for?

    Unfortunately, our economic structure is geared toward optimization, to a fault, over things like flexibility or resilience. You ever heard of a hot path in low latency code? The vast majority of your codebase isn’t on that hot path. A small minority of programmers specialize in minimizing that latency. That doesn’t make everything else unimportant.

    Also, for a world where we can talk to anybody instantly, and have AI machines to spit out basic facts, we are surprising unimaginative about how people can learn with each other, or how much we can.

  101. I definitely recommend subscribing to Amazon Music.

    For about $10 per month, you can listen to literally any music that has ever been recorded.

    Using the search option I don’t think I have ever not found an album I wanted to hear, with one exception, an album called The Instruments of the Dance Orchestra by Ted Heath and his Orchestra (which is an album that gives a demonstration of each instrument, and contain some nice tunes.)

    However there are still at least 20 other albums by the Ted Heath Orchestra, which will be fairly obscure to most people, so I can’t really complain–even though he recorded more than 100 albums in the LP era.

    Today I was listening to John Coltrane’s Crescent, which I can recommend.

    The good thing about Amazon Music is that you can play it anywhere that you have an internet signal–assuming that you have a cell phone plan with data–but it can also be associated with Alexa, so you can also give it verbal orders to play a particular kind of music.

    PLUS you can also download albums to your phone to play offline when you are driving in areas that do not have an internet signal.

    PLUS, since it is associated with Alexa you can also tell it to give you news headlines.

    PLUS you can also hook it up to whatever speaker system you have at home.

    The overall point being that you can listen to absolutely any music that you choose for a nominal sum without having to tune into a radio station and see what somebody else is playing for you or listen to commercials.

    Regarding Steve’s points at the age at which people are interested in music and listen to music, it is my observation that people over the age of 60 very rarely listen to recorded music for pleasure. Maybe when driving in the car because of boredom, but not much otherwise.

    However from the point of view radio stations, it is probably very easy and cheap to fill each hour with about a dozen automated songs plus commercials and news headlines.

    I don’t know whether these most popular songs of all time have a lower rate of royalties. Maybe somebody can answer that.

    • Replies: @DenverGregg
    @Jonathan Mason

    i second this endorsement, though i eschew alexa and all its pomps and works. i've downloaded thousands of songs to my phone. better, the algorithm has introduced me to many performers i enjoy very much and i doubt i ever would have heard of them otherwise. examples: Jools Holland, Messer Chups, Vaud and the Villains, The Bellfuries, The Wild Tchipitoulas, Anders Osborn, Motel Mirrors, Gal Holiday, The International Submarine Orchestra.

    my dad spent most of his waking hours in his retirement listening to recorded music. i'm in the 60+ demographic myself now and i listen for 6+ hours nearly every day, whether at work, driving, or just hanging out.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Jay Fink
    @Jonathan Mason

    I am pushing 60 and I can't imagine not listening to music for pleasure. I'm an outlier though, I am very much a music person. I listened to music when I was 5 when none of my peers were into it yet and I'll be listening when I'm 65 or 75 when few of my fellow geezers listen to it. What makes me especially unusual is I still listen to and keep up with current pop and hip hop. I enjoy some of it, more so than hearing the overplayed 80s hits of my teenage years.

    Replies: @anonymous

  102. @Anonymous
    Why is World music dead last? Yanni is one of the most popular performers of all time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jf75E4dTDY

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Almost Missouri, @Vlad III

    Yanni is generally considered new age, not world music.

  103. @Dave Pinsen
    In the ‘80s in New York, the oldies station would play songs from the ‘50s, while today they’ll play stuff from the ‘80s. I guess they would have gone back further in the ‘80s except that the ‘50s were the dawn of rock, and probably not many listeners straddled ‘50s rock and ‘40s big band music.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Not Raul, @Joe Stalin

    With kids imprinting on music at 13, would the dividing line be kids born in 1939 and earlier versus kids born in 1940 and later?

  104. @Peter Akuleyev
    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz, "hating jazz" seems to be a trope in a lot of pop culture. Or maybe it's an English thing:

    https://youtu.be/C8lrpSk0XYI?si=sMnIPODi6Kv_YFmi

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Corpse Tooth, @Jonathan Mason

    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz,

    Personally I’m a big jazz fan, and listen to jazz nearly every day, and have done so for many, many years, but I think a lot of people say they don’t like jazz because they find it obscure and don’t understand it, and don’t know the names of popular artists, and are not familiar with the tunes that form jazz standards.

    However often if people hear Jazz as part of the soundtrack of a movie, or even as background music in a supermarket, they don’t even notice it’s jazz.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    People generally like Sinatra, Christmas music, etc.: stuff that swings and isn't too abstract (vocals a plus.) They don't as much tend to like modern jazz. I do, but I understand why people are alienated: "anxiety of influence" and disconnect from dancing has resulted in a lot of contemporary jazz having an unpleasantly tense/sterile vibe.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @DenverGregg
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jazz is an incredibly broad category. I'm partial to Oscar Peterson, Cal Tjader, Dave Brubeck, Tito Puente, Ellington, Basie, James Booker. No desire to ever hear more Kenny G again though.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  105. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    @Peter Akuleyev


    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz,
     
    Personally I'm a big jazz fan, and listen to jazz nearly every day, and have done so for many, many years, but I think a lot of people say they don't like jazz because they find it obscure and don't understand it, and don't know the names of popular artists, and are not familiar with the tunes that form jazz standards.

    However often if people hear Jazz as part of the soundtrack of a movie, or even as background music in a supermarket, they don't even notice it's jazz.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @DenverGregg

    People generally like Sinatra, Christmas music, etc.: stuff that swings and isn’t too abstract (vocals a plus.) They don’t as much tend to like modern jazz. I do, but I understand why people are alienated: “anxiety of influence” and disconnect from dancing has resulted in a lot of contemporary jazz having an unpleasantly tense/sterile vibe.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I agree with what you say, and in fact I don't often listen to Jazz recorded after 1970, unless it is by retro artists like Bireli Lagrene or Wynton Marsalis.

  106. @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    You mean like Iggy Pop (Stooges), Henry Rollins (Black Flag), and Glenn Danzig (Misfits)?

  107. @AnotherDad
    @res



    “Our job in higher ed isn’t to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It’s to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten.”
     
    Is “higher ed” really targeted at the bottom 90%? How about aiming a little higher (say 10-50%?) rather than turning college into the new high school?
     
    In fairness, he's talking about income--i.e. parental income--not test scores. I.e. social mobility.

    But I agree with your point--even moreso. Really going off for academic study is only really useful for people with the skills/orientation for it. I'd say for today's population, the top 25%ish sounds about right.

    What we really need instead of sending half the kids off to college is competency tests where kids can demonstrate what they've got upstairs, basic competency and subject matter competency they can work toward in any manner (self-study, on-line, the library) they choose not just "college". As well as lots of opportunity for technical education in the skilled trades.

    Replies: @res, @guest007

    The other issue, as pointed out by Richard Reeves in his book Dream Hoarders, is that for someone to move into the top 10% financially, someone has to fall out. Given how hard families in the top 10% fight to keep their children in the top ten percent, it is much harder to move up. A blue collar families would be better off thinking in terms of two generations instead of one to make the move.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @guest007

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if the consequences weren't as severe. Forget everything people usually talk about and thing really long-term. We're talking who your grandkids are and what their prospects will be, given how associative mating has becoming. So we've entered the realm of the biological, where there's no room for compromise, only will and incentives. That's something that will cause fanaticism in what kind of jobs that their kid can have and who they can go to school with, no matter how unconscious it is.

    Perhaps part of the solution would be to make communities based around something other than shared professional strata more possible. At the end of the day, government action can never be a solution to this, it can only shift the probabilities and terrain involved.

    Replies: @guest007

  108. @res
    @AnotherDad


    In fairness, he’s talking about income–i.e. parental income–not test scores. I.e. social mobility.
     
    I wasn't sure. The first part of the quote (top 1%) seemed to be about identifying talent. Agreed the second part (bottom 90%) seems more likely to be your interpretation.

    It seems to me that the current scheme of public high school followed by college admissions tests should do a reasonably good job of ability identification across the full income range. There will be dis/advantages for the bottom and top of the income range, but I am not sure how much that can be improved. And in any case, that improvement should be occurring in secondary not tertiary education.

    Agreed with your prescription. I would also add we need more ability to have realistic discussions about career paths for the less capable. Along with more respect for people filling those positions well.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Frankly, even people who probably should get a degree eventually would still be better, more dedicated university students in later life-whether we are talking about 22 or 62-than at 18. The vast sums of money spent on “fat” could go to daycare centers or subsidized cheap housing-payable with student jobs-for people who actually know what they are there for, to study and do research, and who will need to shift in and out of the workforce, full time parenthood, or whatever have you. Isn’t that what a university is supposed to be for?

    Unfortunately, our economic structure is geared toward optimization, to a fault, over things like flexibility or resilience. You ever heard of a hot path in low latency code? The vast majority of your codebase isn’t on that hot path. A small minority of programmers specialize in minimizing that latency. That doesn’t make everything else unimportant.

    Also, for a world where we can talk to anybody instantly, and have AI machines to spit out basic facts, we are surprising unimaginative about how people can learn with each other, or how much we can.

    • Agree: bomag
  109. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    due to the turmoil in her life
     
    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn't she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.

    Her looks have suffered
     
    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she'll always be technically insolvent.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b90768ef617db69be45eb8ab6e0f4f7a7e1166aa/0_82_3511_2108/master/3511.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Gallatin, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    She is downright fugly without cosmetics.

  110. @res
    @YetAnotherAnon


    but I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30.
     
    Not sure where you got that. What I see is.

    Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.
     
    Here is a population pyramid for China.
    https://assets.realclear.com/images/61/618223.png

    Doing a quick calculation (sum the percentage differences from 20-49 then multiply by total population) I see an imbalance of 2.2% * 1.43e9 = 31.5 million.

    So their quoted statement seems plausible to me.

    Regarding this:

    It sounds as if family formation is just more affordable.
     
    The opposite appears to be the case.
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/2830656-the-chinese-housing-markets-outrageous-price-to-income-ratio

    In many Chinese cities, the price-to-income ratio for buying a house is between 20:1 and 35:1.

    To put this in perspective, in most areas of the U.S., the price-to-income ratio for buying a house ranges from as little as 0.5:1 to 3:1.
     
    The "Bank of Mum and Dad" comment seems to be eliding an important point. From the same link.

    The average lower- and even middle-class person can't buy a house. Only when both adults are working, and Grandma and Grandpa are living with them too, can an average middle-class family try to buy a house.
     
    They give an interesting link with a table of worldwide cities and their housing affordability.
    https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AnotherDad

    My 70/30 comment was a dig at the BBC’s view that the driver of house purchases was males needing to own a house to attract a bride from the limited pool of women – as 70% of millennials now own houses, you’d need a very very skewed sex ratio for all the purchasers to be male.

    On affordability, I see three possibilities

    a) HSBC (who provided the figures) are lying

    b) Seeking Alpha are lying

    c) all of them are lying

    Just consider. I keep reading that the savings rates in China are YUGE (“because there’s nothing to spend it on!”) .

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/022415/top-10-countries-save-most.asp

    “According to latest World Bank figures, China’s gross domestic savings rate was 47% in 2022”

    Now that’s a huge number – we’re in Stalin’s Soviet Union during industrialisation territory. Yet this nation of mega-savers are also apparently owning and buying houses. Something in China must be very cheap if your average Wang is saving half his salary. In the UK, for example, it would be literally impossible for the average Brit to do that, as rent/mortgage/water/energy/food probably accounts for 70%-plus of wages before ever they pay a broadband bill.

    Does not compute – you agree?

    • Replies: @res
    @YetAnotherAnon

    This 2018 IMF working paper has a great deal about Chinese savings.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330086299_China's_High_Savings_Drivers_Prospects_and_Policies

    Far too much there for me to summarize in detail, but some salient points.


    Demographic changes affect household savings behaviors through both expenditures on children and expected inter-generational support. On the expenditure side, having fewer children requires less spending, especially as regards education, which contributes to an increase in savings. On the income/transfer side, having fewer children leads to a decline in old-age support, which is the elderly’s main livelihood in China.6 This phenomenon creates greater incentive to save more for retirement (Imrohoroglu and Zhao, 2017). Indeed, microdata show the strong impact of the number of children on household savings. Using Urban Household Survey data, Choukhmane et al. (2014) find that households with twins tend to save about 10 percentage points less than households with one child, and this pattern holds across income levels.
    ...
    Quantitatively, demographic shifts alone account for half of the rise in household savings, suggesting that it has been the most important driver. We analyze the impact of demographics based on the overlapping generations model developed by Curtis et al. (2015), which captures both the expenditure and the transfer channel by including children’s consumption in parents’ utility function, and old-age support as a constant share of children’s wages.7 Model simulations show that demographics alone can explain about half of the increase in the household savings rate, holding income growth and interest rates constant.
    ...
    Income inequality translates into savings inequality. Household-level microdata suggest that savings behavior differs substantially across income deciles. Based on Chinese Household Income Project (CHIP) data, the difference between the savings rates of the richest and poorest deciles is often as large as 20 percentage points, reflecting the different propensities to consume out of income. For example, in 2013, the top earners saved close to 50 percent of their incomes, while households in the bottom 10 percent saved about 20 percent.
    ...
    Housing ownership could affect savings behavior through various channels. These include the down payment effect, mortgage effect, and wealth effect. The down payment channel implies that a tenant would save more if she decided to buy a house, and rising housing prices would make that incentive even stronger. The mortgage channel suggests that homeowners would need to save more to pay mortgages. The wealth effect implies that, with rising housing prices, homeowners would also increase consumption and reduce saving as they would feel wealthier. The overall impact of housing ownership on savings, interacted with rapidly rising housing prices, will depend on the relative strength of these offsetting channels.

     

    Much more there.
  111. @Jonathan Mason
    I definitely recommend subscribing to Amazon Music.

    For about $10 per month, you can listen to literally any music that has ever been recorded.

    Using the search option I don't think I have ever not found an album I wanted to hear, with one exception, an album called The Instruments of the Dance Orchestra by Ted Heath and his Orchestra (which is an album that gives a demonstration of each instrument, and contain some nice tunes.)

    However there are still at least 20 other albums by the Ted Heath Orchestra, which will be fairly obscure to most people, so I can't really complain--even though he recorded more than 100 albums in the LP era.

    Today I was listening to John Coltrane's Crescent, which I can recommend.

    The good thing about Amazon Music is that you can play it anywhere that you have an internet signal--assuming that you have a cell phone plan with data--but it can also be associated with Alexa, so you can also give it verbal orders to play a particular kind of music.

    PLUS you can also download albums to your phone to play offline when you are driving in areas that do not have an internet signal.

    PLUS, since it is associated with Alexa you can also tell it to give you news headlines.

    PLUS you can also hook it up to whatever speaker system you have at home.

    The overall point being that you can listen to absolutely any music that you choose for a nominal sum without having to tune into a radio station and see what somebody else is playing for you or listen to commercials.

    Regarding Steve's points at the age at which people are interested in music and listen to music, it is my observation that people over the age of 60 very rarely listen to recorded music for pleasure. Maybe when driving in the car because of boredom, but not much otherwise.

    However from the point of view radio stations, it is probably very easy and cheap to fill each hour with about a dozen automated songs plus commercials and news headlines.

    I don't know whether these most popular songs of all time have a lower rate of royalties. Maybe somebody can answer that.

    Replies: @DenverGregg, @Jay Fink

    i second this endorsement, though i eschew alexa and all its pomps and works. i’ve downloaded thousands of songs to my phone. better, the algorithm has introduced me to many performers i enjoy very much and i doubt i ever would have heard of them otherwise. examples: Jools Holland, Messer Chups, Vaud and the Villains, The Bellfuries, The Wild Tchipitoulas, Anders Osborn, Motel Mirrors, Gal Holiday, The International Submarine Orchestra.

    my dad spent most of his waking hours in his retirement listening to recorded music. i’m in the 60+ demographic myself now and i listen for 6+ hours nearly every day, whether at work, driving, or just hanging out.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @DenverGregg


    i second this endorsement, though i eschew alexa and all its pomps and works.
     
    I only use Alexa because my current home music system consists of a pair of Alexa globe speakers paired together as a stereo system, which works quite well and puts out a lot of sound.

    When my cleaning girl comes she can use it to instruct Alexa in Spanish to play Cumbia music which she enjoys while she works, and I find quite enjoyable once a week, although I don't know the names of artists, etc.

    The songs are evidently quite well-known, because when her 4-year-old daughter occasionally comes as an observer, she is able to sing along with the lyrics.


    The advantage of Alexa in conjunction with Amazon music is that if you have Alexa alone, the music that you can listen to is quite limited to what Alexa wants you to hear, but if you have the combo you can use Alexa to play complete named albums with the tracks in correct order or named single tracks of music without any limitations.

  112. @Jonathan Mason
    @Peter Akuleyev


    I am surprised how few people say they hate jazz,
     
    Personally I'm a big jazz fan, and listen to jazz nearly every day, and have done so for many, many years, but I think a lot of people say they don't like jazz because they find it obscure and don't understand it, and don't know the names of popular artists, and are not familiar with the tunes that form jazz standards.

    However often if people hear Jazz as part of the soundtrack of a movie, or even as background music in a supermarket, they don't even notice it's jazz.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @DenverGregg

    Jazz is an incredibly broad category. I’m partial to Oscar Peterson, Cal Tjader, Dave Brubeck, Tito Puente, Ellington, Basie, James Booker. No desire to ever hear more Kenny G again though.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @DenverGregg

    Yes I like all of these. I have listened to five of the seven artists you mentioned within the last month.

  113. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an interesting article about "stuck culture."

    https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/culture-stuck

    The problem with being down so long is that it will start looking like up to you. If you are under the age of 30 you may think things are normal. But to someone who has lived 3 decades or more you may notice something odd: we haven’t had a shift like we did in the past. Culture is frozen. Throughout the 20th century we had changes almost every decade. Changes in fashion, in music, in aesthetics, hairstyles, style of comedy, television shows and movies. It sort of felt like someone was directing society from the top down, dictating a big shift every 10 years to something new. A director. If I show you a photo or play you a song from the 20th century, you’d probably be able to guess the decade. It was that clean of a break.

     


    Old songs now represent 70% of the US music market.
     

    The new music market is actually shrinking. All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. The current list of most downloaded tracks on iTunes is filled with the names of bands from the last century.

    In the past few years alone, a few companies have snapped up music rights related to artists including Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Shakira, John Lennon, and Dire Straits. By acquiring music rights, these companies can reap the money from royalties, licensing, brand deals, and other revenue streams that would have gone to the artist. These contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    There are millions of songs and artists on various streaming sites. People are overwhelmed. They are going back to the media monoculture of the 20th century.
     
    https://twitter.com/PaulSkallas/status/1756986484400214182

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @res, @Muggles, @Ancient Mason

    Contemporary music regardless of genre has abandoned melody.

  114. @Dave Pinsen
    In the ‘80s in New York, the oldies station would play songs from the ‘50s, while today they’ll play stuff from the ‘80s. I guess they would have gone back further in the ‘80s except that the ‘50s were the dawn of rock, and probably not many listeners straddled ‘50s rock and ‘40s big band music.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Not Raul, @Joe Stalin

    ‘40s big band music.

    Speaking of big band music, WDCB.org’s Jukebox Saturday Night Show for May 5 features singing band leaders.

    Available on their two week archive.
    https://wdcb.org/archive

  115. @res
    @Twinkie


    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?
     
    This is a difficult issue. A generalization is how do you handle a market which has been incredibly distorted due to external forces? For an even better example see the California household solar market right now, way to create a "market" dependent on government largesse.

    The challenge here is how to reconcile these two points.
    1. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.
    2. Many more people (the relative numbers matter! this involves political decisions) have seen huge paper gains for their housing. And for some of those people it is not just paper. They paid cold hard cash (and/or made binding loan commitments) at those prices.

    How do we unwind that? Any suggestions?

    Then there is 3. Various deep pocketed investors are also in category 2.
    And they have political influence.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    The challenge here is how to reconcile these two points.
    1. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.
    2. Many more people (the relative numbers matter! this involves political decisions) have seen huge paper gains for their housing. And for some of those people it is not just paper. They paid cold hard cash (and/or made binding loan commitments) at those prices.

    The first is way, way, way more important than the later. The first is existential. The 2nd is just a debt issue.

    As it is we are inevitably going to have more or less intractable inflation–hopefully moderate, but definitely above the Fed’s 2% target. (There simply isn’t a credible–in our current political environment–way around more money printing.) And inflation actually helps existing debtors.

    A–fantasy–immigration stop, would be followed by generally moderating house prices while incomes riding inflation catch back up. So the losses to existing home owners wouldn’t be a big deal–they benefit by paying their loans with cheaper dollars. The punishment goes to lenders who made long low interest mortgage loans–but those people are already in trouble.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @AnotherDad


    The 2nd is just a debt issue.
     

    A–fantasy
     
    Indeed.
  116. @guest007
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The issue is not building houses but building houses near jobs. As Steve Sailer has pointed out many times, cities like New York or San Francisco have no more land. And living in a high rise condo is not conducive to family formation.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    And living in a high rise condo is not conducive to family formation.
    ==
    You could, theoretically, house the population of New York City with conventional quanta of interior space per person and do so in apartment buildings which averaged about six stories. See Thos Sowell on the real estate market in the Bay Area. Prices are inflated due to restrictions on development.
    ==
    Note also that lateral expansion of large metropolitan settlements is still possible. There are counties in northern New Jersey and in the lower Hudson Valley with exurban territory. Geomorphology is a constraint around Los Angeles, not other places.
    ==
    Note also, housing costs in one market can induce businesses to locate elsewhere.

  117. OT:

  118. @res
    @YetAnotherAnon


    but I refuse to believe sex ratios are 70/30.
     
    Not sure where you got that. What I see is.

    Thanks to the One Child Policy, there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner in China by 2020.
     
    Here is a population pyramid for China.
    https://assets.realclear.com/images/61/618223.png

    Doing a quick calculation (sum the percentage differences from 20-49 then multiply by total population) I see an imbalance of 2.2% * 1.43e9 = 31.5 million.

    So their quoted statement seems plausible to me.

    Regarding this:

    It sounds as if family formation is just more affordable.
     
    The opposite appears to be the case.
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/2830656-the-chinese-housing-markets-outrageous-price-to-income-ratio

    In many Chinese cities, the price-to-income ratio for buying a house is between 20:1 and 35:1.

    To put this in perspective, in most areas of the U.S., the price-to-income ratio for buying a house ranges from as little as 0.5:1 to 3:1.
     
    The "Bank of Mum and Dad" comment seems to be eliding an important point. From the same link.

    The average lower- and even middle-class person can't buy a house. Only when both adults are working, and Grandma and Grandpa are living with them too, can an average middle-class family try to buy a house.
     
    They give an interesting link with a table of worldwide cities and their housing affordability.
    https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AnotherDad

    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.

    Also, not sure why you’re using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?

    It’s self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.

    30-35: 4.3 — 3.9
    25-30: 3.3 — 2.9
    20-25: 3.0 — 2.6

    but it’s even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts–below 35 at least–are smaller. A 33 year old Chinese dude settled into a career and trying to court say a 28 year old woman is looking at a cohort gap (4.3 — 2.9) of over a quarter. Imagine how entitled the girls get with that? Youch!

    The one positive: this should be eugenic. The downside: lots of single men around is not a recipe for social peace.

    The Chinese are boneheads. While frontline–“we’ve got to reduce our population growth!”–understandable, the math here was very very basic, and the social effects very predictable. The correction should have come at least a couple decades earlier in the 90s–2 children with eugenic “high quality” exemptions for more.

    Then again the Chinese stupidity pales beside the “must have immigration!” inanity of West, much less the full on Maoist level “screw Americans!” open border of the “Biden Administration”.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @AnotherDad

    The one thing China has never lacked for is people.

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @AnotherDad

    "the Chinese real estate bubble has popped."

    I've been reading about "ghost cities" since around 2013, so I take with a pinch of salt stuff about the Chinese economy. Anyway, imagine a US or UK with hundreds of thousands of empty houses? It would be a paradise where prices would be low.

    Just returned from a European holiday - a LOT of Chinese tourists, quite a number with small children. Either they are the Chinese elites, in which case they don't act like them (a Chinese woman gave up her seat for my wife because she was using a crutch post-injury), or their middle classes are starting to enjoy the good life.

    They were still however outnumbered by Americans, mostly from cruise ships.

    , @res
    @AnotherDad


    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.
     
    Do you have data for that? The price to income ratio differences with the rest of the world were extreme (here 1996-2020).
    https://lipperalpha.refinitiv.com/2020/06/chart-of-the-week-chinas-house-price-to-income-ratio-exceeds-17/

    And recent numbers for Beijing and Shanghai don't look all that popped to me.
    https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/compare_cities.jsp?country1=China&city1=Beijing&country2=China&city2=Shanghai

    Also, not sure why you’re using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?
     
    The original comment mentioned a 30 million excess of males. That was a way of calculating a comparable number for confirmation.

    It’s self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.
     
    That is another way of looking at it. Both approaches have their strengths. Yours is better for assessing the severity of the musical chairs aspect of this issue. The absolute male excess is better for making observations like how this affects the ability of China to field a large army without impacting their reproduction.

    but it’s even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts–below 35 at least–are smaller.
     
    That effect tends to even out over time, but you are right to highlight the severity of it in the critical 20-34 age range.
  119. I actually liked the “classic rock” from about 20 years ago, more than I do today. I guess I half expected that the classic rock that I liked, would always be considered classic rock, for airplay.

    I think what I’m looking for is something 1965-1975’ish.

    Also, I wish they’d stop playing Back in Black so often…

  120. @guest007
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Almost Missouri

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    Is that really that big a deal? Procter & Gamble is famous for the quality of the training it gives its hires. They are trained in every aspect of the business and rotated between brands to have a broader experience. From talking to young people who worked there, I know that a lot of MBAs starting out are happy to take a position at P&G, and after a few years, with an enhanced resumé, look elsewhere for a company they’d rather work for. And, of course, others stay. It seems to work out.

    • Replies: @guest007
    @Harry Baldwin

    A company hiring MBAs is not training or developing their own employees. Image the old days of the 1950's when a brokerage could hire someone with a history degree from an Ivy League/Ivy Like and spend months training the person who work in finance. Now those companies hire Harvard MBAs where Harvard did the work to identify who can do the math and then train the person to do the math.

  121. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Okay since we're really getting down to this, then let's get down to this.

    For the record, I have no real personal interest in gassing on about the Harvard scene, but since:

    a) it preoccupies an unusual amount of the Sailersphere's world, and
    b) it does occupy a significant amount of the public's time, and given its reach and influence, that is not a crazy matter to attend to; and
    c) lots of people, as attested to here, seem to have a really strange almost pathological conception of what actually goes on there...

    Let me clear a few things up. Unlike most of you, I actually went there, and I actually made the scene, so lemme tell you how it is.

    First things first...

    -- You have to understand, it was a different scene decades ago, this would NEVER happen now, but back then I was your prime-A candidate: working-class white-ethnic kid, near-perfect SATs, perfect 4.0 GPA from an elite school, poor-boy scholarship kid, kooky extra-curriculars (I was a well-known underground cartoonist), crazy avant-garde stage director, the works.

    -- You can't imagine how much MONEY people threw at me from all over the country: I could have ridden around in a sedan chair at Williams or Stanford, carried by slavegirls who fed me iced coffee and chilled grapes.

    -- But when I took a look at Harvard, I saw something different: they offered me not a golden-plated scholarship but a decent fair deal, which included student debt and washing dishes and scrubbing toilet bowls. So, y'know, I accepted.

    -- I turned down comfort and security in exchange for hardship and debt, because I knew what Harvard had, which the other schools didn't have: the secret keys to POWER. And they did not disappoint.

    There's an inside joke about Harvard: you ignore the professors, and pay very close attention to your fellow students.

    It's true. Among the people I studied with, some of the professors were kind of cool (the best one was a graduate-student tutor), but the real gasoline came from the other kids: the most life-changing, mind-expanding experiences I had there all came from other students. They're all household names now, I won't bore you with who they are.

    But at Williams, you go around taking some good classes and graduate with a magna;

    At Harvard (this really happened to me) you have a pleasant first year and then you get kicked out for being in a drunken brawl and then your House master realizes that you were railroaded and sets you up with a job at MIT designing computer games, and then still as a teenager you co-found an experimental theater company which still exists to this very day, and then you create gigantic psychotic theater productions which gets you a lot of attention in Hollywood.

    Like I say, you learn how Power works.

    Replies: @onetwothree, @Anonymous, @NotAnonymousHere

    Every single g-d m-fing c-sing one of your posts is about how superterrificexcellenttriumphant you are.
    You win the Miles Mathis Medal
    with Jussie Smollett Cluster.
    Dude.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @NotAnonymousHere

    Sort of an interesting cri du coeur from somebody who's never really accomplished anything worth talking about, comparatively speaking. Well, y'know... sleep in a few gutters and then get back to me. I'm still here sleeping in gutters like I always do, I'm still here. Waiting for your autobiography, or your Obras Completas.

    But do look me up sometime, after you do something worth translating into twenty or thirty languages and can finally compare dicks with; I have a standing table at the Chateau des Artistes, I'll buy you a glass of coke or sumpin. Nazdrovi'a.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVbtjaWXQVg


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV0F_XiR48Q

    , @bomag
    @NotAnonymousHere


    You win the Miles Mathis Medal
     
    I've recently discovered the genre. Fascinating. Weirdly popular; so obtuse on technical matters; big lefty, but makes some sense on social issues.
  122. @Anon
    I used to hear “Jack and Diane” endlessly on job sites, what Is it with that stupid song that they keep it on heavy rotation? So desperately, I turned the NPR for the first time in four years the other day, the first words out of the mouths of the commentators was Trump, negative of course. Talk about institutional TDS.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @Jay Fink

    I read a recent comment that had 1000s of likes mocking a recent Mellencamp rant at one of his concerts…”A little ditty, about Shut the Fuck Up!” Some of these guys like Johnny Cougar and Bono do need to STFU and just sing.

    • Agree: Goddard
  123. @Almost Missouri
    Off topic, but not off iSteve evergreen themes Affordable Family Formation, etc.

    How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future by NYU marketing professor Scott Galloway

    It's garnered over a million YouTube views in just three days, which is extremely high even for a TED Talk. (Most TED Talks languish at a few percent of that at this age.) So it is safe to say this "going viral".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

    Some of his stats:

    Generation* | Income** | College cost vs. income | House price vs. income

    Grandparents . . . $74,000 . . . 14% . . . 3×
    Parents . . . . . $70,000 . . . 17% . . . 4×
    Kids . . . . . . $56,000 . . . 42% . . . 7×

    *At age 25
    **Pre-tax, adjusted for inflation

    His slide says, "Source: Prof G analysis", which apparently means his own work. He once was a fixed income analyst at Morgan Stanley, so maybe his math is sound.

    His presentation also includes the datum that younger generations stopped out-earning their parents at the same age in 1980 and has been getting worse since then. ("Source: Science December 2016")

    The gravamen of is presentation is at 3:15:

    The incumbents that own assets have weaponized government to make it very difficult for new entrants ever to get their own assets, thereby elevating their own net worth.
     
    Other data points:

    Ratio of wealth of over 70s households vs. under 40s households, 1989 vs. 2023:
    1.58× vs. 4.29×
    ("Source: Federal Reserve")

    Portion of 30- to 34-year-olds who have at least one child:
    1993 ... 60%
    2023 ... 27%
    ("Source: Pew Research")

    He has a talent for an incendiary turn of phrase. E.g.,

    "It's never been easier to be a billiohnaire. It's never been harder to be a millionaire."

    "Our job in higher ed isn't to identify a top one percent of people who are freakishly remarkable or have rich parents and turn them into a super class of billionaires. It's to give the bottom 90% a chance to be in the top ten."

    "Harvard is the best example of this ... they're no longer in higher education. They're a hedge fund offering classes."

    "Old people vote. Washington has become a cross between the Land of the Dead and The Golden Girls."

    "We should not romanticize obesity. You're not finding your truth. You're finding diabetes." [You can tell he's a leftist, since no one would have to explain this to the right.]

    He presents the deck stacked against young Americans as a deliberate conspiracy on the part of the old against the young.



    This is, in IMHO, a misdiagnosis. Asset owners have always sought to hedge their ownership, so the question is not "Why do they do this?", but "Why have they been so spectacularly successful recently in ways that specifically disadvantage younger cohorts?" Maybe the demographic heft of the Boomers has something to do with it, but given the larger population below them, this has yet to be proven.

    He ignores the 800-pound gorilla in the room, mass immigration, as well as other 500-pound and 300-pound social pathologies that obviously contribute: e.g., declining IQ, multiculturalism, network cartelization, regulatory capture, and predatory divorce laws that disincentivize family formation and break up families that have formed.

    He throws in random—and incorrect—leftist nostrums ("Universal Pre-K", "Re-fund [sic] the IRS", "Internet identity verification"), but I suppose it serves to keep the leftist audience on board with some of the more reactionary recommendations ("No phones in schools", "National service", "Income-based affirmative action"). But none of those will solve much without addressing the actual causes.

    Nevertheless, his heartfelt plea, and the viral reaction have me wonder if Generational Warfare is back on the menu?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @JohnnyWalker123, @Peter Akuleyev, @Anonymous, @Sebastian Hawks, @Twinkie, @E. Rekshun, @AnotherDad, @res, @guest007, @Frau Katze

    It’s not just the US. It’s just as bad if not worse in Canada. Young people cannot afford to buy a home — and now they can’t even afford to rent.

    Adult children living with parents is becoming common.

    Thanks to massive immigration there are shortages of all sorts and the opposition Conservative Party actually mentioned immigration in their latest email.

    • Thanks: ydydy
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Frau Katze


    the opposition Conservative Party actually mentioned immigration in their latest email.
     
    It's amazing how bad it had to get before the party of car dealers, real estate agents and accountants said anything against this Ponzi scheme immigration policy.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bg3psxZ_pRg

    Replies: @epebble

  124. @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    Ask Henry Rollins — preferably from a safe distance.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Rollins seems like he's very tiresome to talk to. Like, you might agree with him on some things, but if you disagreed he'd be constantly screaming at you in your face about it, and just demand total adherence to his current belief. And given his communistic philosophy there's a lot you'd disagree with. Leno had him on once and he seemed to alternate between charming and psychotic (when it came to politics).

    Given his muscular physique and wide-eyed aggression it could be quite intimidating in person.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Brutusale

  125. @Frau Katze
    @Almost Missouri

    It’s not just the US. It’s just as bad if not worse in Canada. Young people cannot afford to buy a home — and now they can’t even afford to rent.

    Adult children living with parents is becoming common.

    Thanks to massive immigration there are shortages of all sorts and the opposition Conservative Party actually mentioned immigration in their latest email.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    the opposition Conservative Party actually mentioned immigration in their latest email.

    It’s amazing how bad it had to get before the party of car dealers, real estate agents and accountants said anything against this Ponzi scheme immigration policy.

    • Thanks: Frau Katze, epebble
    • Replies: @epebble
    @Cagey Beast

    This one for U.S. Has good music too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2jGcLFvdJ4

  126. @anonymous
    @SFG

    Wasn't punk always for skinny, no-muscles white kids? What were they in rebellion against?

    Replies: @SFG, @Mark G., @Trinity, @Vlad III, @Gary in Gramercy, @Jay Fink

    That skinny no muscles look described me (still does) and I was a big punk fan as a teen in the early 80s. Then I went to my first punk concert (Social Distortion in 1982) and the crowd wasn’t my fellow skinny no muscle nerds. It was a very edgy, hardcore group of people I couldn’t relate to. I knew I wasn’t a punk rocker after all. Today most of it sounds terrible to me although I have a few punk songs saved to my playlists for nostalgia sake.

    • Replies: @Ministry Of Tongues
    @Jay Fink

    There was a change in the scene. From aesthetes like X and Suburban Lawns to... the Orange County Army (but in truth many outlying areas). Younger, almost all male, conformist, much more aggressive.

    , @Captain Tripps
    @Jay Fink

    I know it's their most popular sing, but "Bad Luck" has always rocked me since I first heard it in '92. Too bad Ness is a dense leftard.

  127. @AnotherDad
    @res

    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.

    Also, not sure why you're using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?

    It's self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.

    30-35: 4.3 -- 3.9
    25-30: 3.3 -- 2.9
    20-25: 3.0 -- 2.6

    but it's even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts--below 35 at least--are smaller. A 33 year old Chinese dude settled into a career and trying to court say a 28 year old woman is looking at a cohort gap (4.3 -- 2.9) of over a quarter. Imagine how entitled the girls get with that? Youch!

    The one positive: this should be eugenic. The downside: lots of single men around is not a recipe for social peace.

    The Chinese are boneheads. While frontline--"we've got to reduce our population growth!"--understandable, the math here was very very basic, and the social effects very predictable. The correction should have come at least a couple decades earlier in the 90s--2 children with eugenic "high quality" exemptions for more.

    Then again the Chinese stupidity pales beside the "must have immigration!" inanity of West, much less the full on Maoist level "screw Americans!" open border of the "Biden Administration".

    Replies: @SFG, @YetAnotherAnon, @res

    The one thing China has never lacked for is people.

  128. @Anon
    I used to hear “Jack and Diane” endlessly on job sites, what Is it with that stupid song that they keep it on heavy rotation? So desperately, I turned the NPR for the first time in four years the other day, the first words out of the mouths of the commentators was Trump, negative of course. Talk about institutional TDS.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @Jay Fink

    I hate that song with a passion. What a nightmare that it’s never stopped being played since it was new over 40 years ago. Besides being terribly burned out on it I never could relate to the Jack character.

    • Agree: Goddard
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Jay Fink

    The song is a dig at small town rubes, so of course it's going to get played all the time.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jay Fink

    I never understood how the entire Bible Belt could come and save his soul.

    Like Seger and Loaf, Mellencamp thought sex in a motor vehicle a proper subject for the public airwaves. But there wasn't enough room in the back seat of Jackie's two-door muscle car, so they took it outside.

    His first hit song was decent background music, but you almost never hear it anymore. Kind of how they never play Rush's catchy "Fly By Night", while constantly inflicting us with the execrable and preachy "Tom Sawyer". Some songs are cryptic and obscure, while others whack you over the head with their message. This piece manages to do both simultaneously.

    In the case of Al Stewart, the two they overplay are still pretty good. Someone here mentioned Sunset Boulevard. He was driving that stretch when "Year of the Cat" came on the radio. When it was done, he switched stations, and heard it again. He figured Californians appreciated him more than his fellow Brits did, and decided to settle there. He's in Napa Valley now, which must be heaven for an œnophile like him.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  129. @prime noticer
    Steve has correctly identified the concept which i call the "Music Wall". like a cultural black hole, things beyond a certain year never escape. although for music sales, the wall is around 1980. nothing from the 70s or earlier sells anymore. diamond albums from the early 80s and later continue to sell at a good rate. we are witnessing the somewhat unexpected disappearance of Led Zeppelin, like a black hole going thru Hawking radiation. something that seemed eternal is finally evaporating. nobody cares about them anymore, an event which i never thought i would see.

    there is also a general cultural wall with very few things from before the early 80s making any kind of appearance today, following my ideas about peak cultural output being between 1980 and 2000 or so. but this focus on the 80s and 90s leads to the derivative, ever looking backwards alterno timeline we're on now, where media outlets just keep making rehashes of stuff from the 80s and 90s, but worse.

    Replies: @bomag

    Sirius/XM has channels devoted to the decades going back to the 1940s; so there appears to be some market for older “pop” stuff.

    I routinely scroll up and down the dial; strangest thing is I don’t hear any Warren Zevon.

  130. Fleetwood Mac’s “Dreams,”

    Their only number 1 hit, but off-hand I couldn’t think which song this was just from the title. Just from listening to it, I probably would have called it “Thunder Only Happens When It’s Raining”. At any rate this album also produced Don’t Stop, You Make Loving Fun, and Go Your Own Way, with the first of those enjoying a resurgence 32 years ago during the campaign and victory of Bill Clinton.

    These days’ [sic] radio stations seem to play each band’s most popular song vastly more often than even it’s [sic] second most popular song.

    Wow, two extraneous apostrophes in one sentence. In any event I’m not sure I would agree with this observation, as New York’s classic rock station Q104 seems to play most of the Beatles’ popular catalog pretty consistently, but perhaps the Beatles are a poor example as they had so many hits.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @ScarletNumber


    Just from listening to it, I probably would have called it “Thunder Only Happens When It’s Raining”.
     
    I would have called it "When the Rainbow Shaves You Clean".
    , @anonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    +1 on the apostrophe annoyance. Like, jeez.

    What I found surprising about the survey results is the higher "love" proportion for CR over Pop. Seems to me that people who still listen to the radio woukd rather hear the catchy tunes hy Hall & Oates or Journey than those by The Who or Bob Seger.

    I've found Steve's observation about hit #1 crowding out hit #2 to be accurate in at least one instance. If I tune in the CR station around Santa Rosa, I can depend on hearing Freebird or Sweet Home Alabama, but never That Smell, in my view the much better tune.

    And speaking of classic, I've been watching a lot of old ballgames on YT and man, Haray Caray and Ralph Kiner were way better than the punks working today.

    , @Captain Tripps
    @ScarletNumber

    To me, "The Chain" is by far the best song on the Rumours album. "You Can Go Your Own Way" is a distant second.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Old Virginia

  131. @Jonathan Mason
    I definitely recommend subscribing to Amazon Music.

    For about $10 per month, you can listen to literally any music that has ever been recorded.

    Using the search option I don't think I have ever not found an album I wanted to hear, with one exception, an album called The Instruments of the Dance Orchestra by Ted Heath and his Orchestra (which is an album that gives a demonstration of each instrument, and contain some nice tunes.)

    However there are still at least 20 other albums by the Ted Heath Orchestra, which will be fairly obscure to most people, so I can't really complain--even though he recorded more than 100 albums in the LP era.

    Today I was listening to John Coltrane's Crescent, which I can recommend.

    The good thing about Amazon Music is that you can play it anywhere that you have an internet signal--assuming that you have a cell phone plan with data--but it can also be associated with Alexa, so you can also give it verbal orders to play a particular kind of music.

    PLUS you can also download albums to your phone to play offline when you are driving in areas that do not have an internet signal.

    PLUS, since it is associated with Alexa you can also tell it to give you news headlines.

    PLUS you can also hook it up to whatever speaker system you have at home.

    The overall point being that you can listen to absolutely any music that you choose for a nominal sum without having to tune into a radio station and see what somebody else is playing for you or listen to commercials.

    Regarding Steve's points at the age at which people are interested in music and listen to music, it is my observation that people over the age of 60 very rarely listen to recorded music for pleasure. Maybe when driving in the car because of boredom, but not much otherwise.

    However from the point of view radio stations, it is probably very easy and cheap to fill each hour with about a dozen automated songs plus commercials and news headlines.

    I don't know whether these most popular songs of all time have a lower rate of royalties. Maybe somebody can answer that.

    Replies: @DenverGregg, @Jay Fink

    I am pushing 60 and I can’t imagine not listening to music for pleasure. I’m an outlier though, I am very much a music person. I listened to music when I was 5 when none of my peers were into it yet and I’ll be listening when I’m 65 or 75 when few of my fellow geezers listen to it. What makes me especially unusual is I still listen to and keep up with current pop and hip hop. I enjoy some of it, more so than hearing the overplayed 80s hits of my teenage years.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Jay Fink

    Just keep your music off the golf course and everything will be fine.

  132. I generally agree with the hate for rap, but the thing is that modern rap has gotten so much worse that I feel nostalgic when I hear “classic” rap. Modern rap consists mainly of verbal diarrhea, auto tune, and “trap beats” (think of the click when a CD skips and imagine the background of a song consisting only of that). As for classic rap, I have to admit I won’t turn the radio away from “Nothing but a G Thang”, “The Humpty Dance”, “Baby Got Back”, or even “My Name Is”.

  133. @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    its broken one note Samba

    Tom Jobim worked all twelve tones into the bridge of “One Note Samba”. And made it work. Can you imagine anyone doing that today?

  134. @ScarletNumber

    Fleetwood Mac’s “Dreams,”
     
    Their only number 1 hit, but off-hand I couldn't think which song this was just from the title. Just from listening to it, I probably would have called it "Thunder Only Happens When It's Raining". At any rate this album also produced Don't Stop, You Make Loving Fun, and Go Your Own Way, with the first of those enjoying a resurgence 32 years ago during the campaign and victory of Bill Clinton.

    These days’ [sic] radio stations seem to play each band’s most popular song vastly more often than even it’s [sic] second most popular song.
     
    Wow, two extraneous apostrophes in one sentence. In any event I'm not sure I would agree with this observation, as New York's classic rock station Q104 seems to play most of the Beatles' popular catalog pretty consistently, but perhaps the Beatles are a poor example as they had so many hits.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Captain Tripps

    Just from listening to it, I probably would have called it “Thunder Only Happens When It’s Raining”.

    I would have called it “When the Rainbow Shaves You Clean”.

  135. anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Fleetwood Mac’s “Dreams,”
     
    Their only number 1 hit, but off-hand I couldn't think which song this was just from the title. Just from listening to it, I probably would have called it "Thunder Only Happens When It's Raining". At any rate this album also produced Don't Stop, You Make Loving Fun, and Go Your Own Way, with the first of those enjoying a resurgence 32 years ago during the campaign and victory of Bill Clinton.

    These days’ [sic] radio stations seem to play each band’s most popular song vastly more often than even it’s [sic] second most popular song.
     
    Wow, two extraneous apostrophes in one sentence. In any event I'm not sure I would agree with this observation, as New York's classic rock station Q104 seems to play most of the Beatles' popular catalog pretty consistently, but perhaps the Beatles are a poor example as they had so many hits.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Captain Tripps

    +1 on the apostrophe annoyance. Like, jeez.

    What I found surprising about the survey results is the higher “love” proportion for CR over Pop. Seems to me that people who still listen to the radio woukd rather hear the catchy tunes hy Hall & Oates or Journey than those by The Who or Bob Seger.

    I’ve found Steve’s observation about hit #1 crowding out hit #2 to be accurate in at least one instance. If I tune in the CR station around Santa Rosa, I can depend on hearing Freebird or Sweet Home Alabama, but never That Smell, in my view the much better tune.

    And speaking of classic, I’ve been watching a lot of old ballgames on YT and man, Haray Caray and Ralph Kiner were way better than the punks working today.

  136. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an intriguing analysis of the music industry.

    https://akinokure.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-mirage-of-raps-popularity-how.html

    The mirage of rap's popularity: How streaming stats mislead vs. sales and airplay

     


    Looking over the top 100 songs for 2020, I was struck yet again by how much rap there is. I've noticed this for the past several years, and figured I was just out of touch with that area of pop music, since I don't listen to rap radio stations, don't know anyone who's really into rap, and don't go to clubs that play rap. Still, it just seemed like a growing presence that was not my cup of tea.

    But having studied the seismic shift that streaming has had on the music culture, I can finally make some sense of it. Rap is in fact a niche genre, with a few crossover hits to mainstream audiences. However, the media elites who construct the chart formulas have put their thumb on the scale in order to over-emphasize rap's popularity and influence, at the expense of truly popular genres like pop, country, and dance.

    The formal trick they use is giving substantial weight to streaming stats, which do not distinguish between breadth vs. depth of exposure. And popularity is about breadth of exposure across the entire music-listening population, not the depth of devotion among fans who expose themselves repeatedly to the song, as opposed to casual fans who expose themselves to it far fewer times.

    So if you too were wondering why there's so much emphasis on rap in the media, you weren't crazy. It's another example of woke representation practices, meant to buy off the "talented tenth" of African-Americans, who get employment in the entertainment sector, and placate the bottom 90% of them with cultural cred -- rather than the entertainment and media elites using their high status to lobby the Democrats into providing desperately needed public goods and services.

     





    First, a clarification -- the Billboard charts are a product of the media sector, not entertainment. The record labels produce the music, the artists perform it, and various other channels distribute it to the audience (radio stations, clubs, streaming platforms, etc.). Billboard is more of a trade publication than a cultural commentary one, but it's still part of the media sector, albeit the entertainment-focused media.

    So, this is not a case of the production side making a ton of rap songs that nobody wants to listen to. Nor is it the distributors taking a niche genre and foisting it on users of their platforms like YouTube, radio stations, and so on. Those two sides are too driven by the cold, hard laws of supply & demand to attempt to deliver a bunch of stuff that is largely unwanted.

    However, the media who describe and comment on entertainment are under no such constraints. Or rather, their supply & demand laws are different because their audience is not listeners of music per se, but readers of music-themed discourse. Their audience wants to read takes, and spit out takes of their own, which is orthogonal to what types of music they enjoy listening to.

    It's perfectly possible, then, for Billboard to mischaracterize the state of supply & demand in the music industry, if doing so will satisfy the cravings of discourse junkies. It would be wrong to call this "foisting" their narrative onto the music-listening public, because the typical music fan probably never looks at the Billboard charts. Those who do consume media commentary on music, though, evidently eat up the narrative about how influential rap is, so the media outlets are not foisting the misleading description onto their audience either -- they're just supplying the demand for a certain narrative.

    But if you do want an overall accurate picture of what the zeitgeist is like, out of curiosity, just bear in mind that the media chart creators can and do rig the outcome in order to please their target audience above all else. It won't be totally outta whack, since such a picture would not even be plausible, and the audience wants the illusion of reality as well as the ideologically soothing distortions. Still, something to take into account.


    * * *


    Now, the basic problem. For the 2020 Hot 100 chart, I count 30-some rap songs. Not a majority, but still a sizable share. And to anyone who's been in touch with music this year, way too many. What gives?

    Well, the Hot 100 chart is actually made up of several component charts. The three with heaviest weighting are sales of singles (i.e. digital downloads), radio airplay, and streaming plays. As of 2013, these carry weightings of 35-45%, 30-40%, and 20-30%, respectively, and the weightings change week to week.

    The shifting weekly weightings is the first obvious sign that the chart creators are using these stats to rig the desired outcome, otherwise the weightings would stay the same in order to judge all songs by the same set of standards. In one week, one weighting will accomplish the goal of maximizing rap at the expense of pop, dance, and country, while a different weighting will be needed for another week, since each week's batch of songs perform somewhat differently relative to one another.

    For example, if the sales stats favor pop over rap by a huge amount in week 1, and to a lesser degree in week 2, then the chart-riggers will have to give a lower weight to sales in week 1 than in week 2.

    Let's turn to Billboard's Digital Songs sales chart, of which their website lists only the top 75. For the 2020 chart, I count about 10 of the rap songs that are also on the Hot 100 chart, and several others that are not. Scaling that to a list of 100 by sales, that would be about 15-20 rap songs -- in other words, only half as many as actually appear on the Hot 100 chart.

    Not only is rap less pervasive on the sales chart, but big hit songs you've been hearing all year do in fact show up, while they're mysteriously missing from the Hot 100 chart. "Kings and Queens" by Ava Max, "Midnight Sky" by Miley Cyrus, and "Stupid Love" by Lady Gaga in the dance genre. "Lover" and "Cardigan" by Taylor Swift in the adult contempo genre. And a slew of country songs I don't recognize because I'm not in the target demographic. Again, that's only for the 75 songs listed on their website; if they had a full list of 100, there would be more staples of the zeitgeist in those genres that were kept out of the Hot 100.

    When I looked over the sales chart, it felt 10 times more familiar than what's listed on the Hot 100 chart. And that's not just from what I seek out deliberately -- it's from what I hear in any public place that plays music, what's on while changing radio stations, what's popular on Tik Tok trends, what a popular streamer like Pokimane plays in the background while chatting, what anyone is talking about, what online memes refer to... literally every source of pop culture other than the music media itself.

    There is a heavy overlap between the sales and Hot 100 charts, since the big-picture narrative from the Hot 100 chart cannot be totally divorced from reality. Still, it's striking how disoriented a normal music listener -- who doesn't care about woke ideology being reflected in the list -- would get from there being a sizable minority of fake rap songs shoehorned in, and the same number of actually popular dance / pop / country songs erased from the record.


    * * *


    As for radio airplay, Billboard doesn't list their top 100 songs online, but by genre it must reflect the distribution of radio station listenership size by genre (called a "format"). See Nielsen's overview of the top radio formats at the end of 2019.

    There is no dedicated rap or hip-hop format, but they are included under the urban contemporary and (to a lesser degree) the urban adult contemporary formats. So however well those formats do, rap must do worse, since urban contempo (and especially urban AC) also includes a bunch of R&B songs.

    Among music stations playing current music, the formats with the largest listenership size are adult contempo, country, and pop, followed by hot AC and urban AC, with urban contempo lagging down with Mexican regional. Notice that this is the opposite ranking of which genres are artificially boosted on the Hot 100 chart.

    Even more telling is the fact that Mexican regional does not get over-represented on the Hot 100, despite the potential wokeness cred that the chart-riggers could enjoy from doing so, and despite it being as popular or more so on the radio than rap. However, the cultural commentators and their audiences don't find Mexican culture interesting, other than the food, and they don't feel as strong of a need to "heal historical traumas" or "correct the historical record" by amplifying recognition of Mexican culture today, as compared to African-American culture.

    The same goes for the Spanish contempo format, which is about as popular as rap (if not urban contempo as a whole, due to R&B's popularity), and is as popular as alternative. But listening to reggaeton enough to have an opinion on it one way or another, let alone actually dancing to it in a club with thicc-booty Cuban girls, would absolutely mortify the dorky white liberal males who control the music-themed media sector, and make up most of the audience as well.

    "Spanish music" is still too dance-oriented and corporeal for it to appeal to the cerebral types who are take junkies and media consumers. There's no pretension in the lyrics about "telling a larger story," "raising awareness," etc., and there's no raw angsty attitude like in modern rap, which in many ways has become the black version of punk -- non-musical angst, verbal focus, and a basic beat without melodic instruments.

    When rap is (slightly) more melodic, dance-oriented, and aimed at dudes and dudettes grinding on each other in a club, rather than individuals stewing in angst alone in their room, music media people lose all interest. Suddenly it's just a pretext for animalistic booty-shaking. Like all good cerebrals, they only condone sex-having and lust in music if it's centered around boobs (elevating) rather than butts (sinful).


    * * *


    That leaves only streaming as the component of the Hot 100 that must be artificially boosting the popularity of rap, and diminishing that of pop, dance, and country. This component reflects all the big platforms -- YouTube, Spotify, et al.

    The first problem with streaming is the youth bias: 55% of Spotify users are aged 18-34. And in Nielsen's radio listenership article, urban contempo skyrockets to 4th place in that age group, while Mexican regional and Spanish contempo lag far behind. Giving greater weight to streaming means giving rap more representation compared to pop, country and Spanish-language music.

    But there's a far greater distortion that comes from using streaming stats. Billboard uses the total number of plays across streaming media (in the US), which could be a lot of people listening a few times each (a broadly popular fad song), or a few diehards listening to it over and over again (a niche song that will last forever in the fanbase).

    That makes streaming unlike sales of songs, where one sale could be listened to one time or one million times -- it's still measuring the song's exposure to just one individual. Diehard fans do not skew the overall results by listening to their purchases many times more than casual fans who bought the same song. Total sales of a song = total individuals exposed directly.

    And it's also unlike radio airplay, which takes audience size into account. They use the share of radio listeners tuned into a certain station for at least 5 minutes during a 15-minute interval. If a song is played in that interval, that audience size is about how many people were exposed to the song.

    Even if someone tunes into the station and hears that song every day, it doesn't skew the overall results because they aren't adding to the audience size by tuning in every day -- it's roughly the same size from one week to the next. Diehard fans may be tuning in every day, while casual fans only listen some days of the week -- but the total size stays about even because some casual fans who are absent on one day are made up for by other casual fans who are tuning in that day. (And when those casuals tune out later in the week, the casuals who were tuned out earlier in the week show up to replace them.)

    So if anything, radio airplay is skewed more by casual listeners than by diehard fans, since the total number of casual listeners is hardly all present on any given day. Thus, the station's listenership is larger than it would appear from a snapshot in time. And assuming some song is a regular in the station's playlist throughout the week, it's reaching a broader audience than it would appear from a snapshot. Like sales, radio airplay measures breadth rather than depth.

    The streaming stats could be made accurate by measuring the total number of unique individuals who played the song during a given interval, regardless of how many times they played it. Spotify could do that, since their users have to have downloaded the app and be signed in. But YouTube does not require you to even have an account, let alone be signed in, to search for and play videos. And big hits get in the 100s of millions of views on YouTube (albeit globally), so that is no small problem with aggregating streaming stats across all platforms.

    I guess YouTube could try tracking how many unique IPs within the US played a video in a given interval, regardless of number of times played. But they're not doing that.

    And the larger point is they don't want to -- it would ruin their goal of over-representing rap in the Hot 100 chart, to construct the narrative of how influential a certain part of African-American culture is in the broader society. Using youth-biased streaming stats, with a substantial and shifting weighting, and measuring total plays rather than audience size, are just the technical means toward the end of narrative construction.
     

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Anon Cubed, @R.G. Camara, @The Last Real Calvinist, @Anon

    Rap became very, very controlled by the music industry in the 1990s with the advent of the thoroughly-music-industry created “gangsta rap.”

    Up until that point, rap had been a decent subgenre with some hits and notable names, e.g. The Fat Boys,a gimmicky chubby rap group who got to star in major studio movies; The Beastie Boys, Jewish white rappers from Brooklyn who layered their rap with lots of rock; and Run DMC, who covered Aerosmith’s “Walk this Way” to a hit. But rap was always seen as either a novelty or a minor subgenre, black dominated and yet limited — in short, it wasn’t as catchy as a rock, pop, country, or funk tune.

    In the 1990s however, the music industry came up with the idea of “gangsta rap” and enlisted a group of talented but nonthreatening black music geeks, changed their image to one of hardcore gangsters, called them NWA , and then pushed them to the moon with lyrics about violence, sex, and criminal behavior. And then created this industry image that unless another talented rapper gave you “street cred”, you never got radio play.

    In other words, record companies controlled who became the next big rapper by making sure radios wouldn’t play anyone without “street cred”—and who gave street cred? Why only other record company controlled hit rappers, of course!

    Thus how we got limp-wristed theater kids like Tupac Shakur fronting as a do-rag wearing tough guy from the hood. Or chubby midgets like Ice Cube pretending to be some kind of super-hard gang leader.

    Unlike with other genres, in rap it became impossible to get big simply by touring a lot and writing good songs. Of course, black violence at shows caused a lot of this, as non-blacks wouldn’t show up at many low level black rap shows for fear of violence. But the record companies also made sure to clamp down early on any talented rapper who was trying the old touring method of getting big, which would have allowed rappers to escape the record company controls.

    Instead, rappers became big in the same way teen idols did—-a record company exec noticed you, controlled your image, put you on the radio, and made you dance for them–and if you crossed them, you were out on the street before you could blink (or worse—see Shakur and Biggie Smalls).

    NWA was about as processed and controlled as New Kids on the Block. And today, The Weeknd is as beholden to the record companies and their payloa to radio stations as Justin Bieber.

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
  137. @Gary in Gramercy
    @anonymous

    Ask Henry Rollins -- preferably from a safe distance.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Rollins seems like he’s very tiresome to talk to. Like, you might agree with him on some things, but if you disagreed he’d be constantly screaming at you in your face about it, and just demand total adherence to his current belief. And given his communistic philosophy there’s a lot you’d disagree with. Leno had him on once and he seemed to alternate between charming and psychotic (when it came to politics).

    Given his muscular physique and wide-eyed aggression it could be quite intimidating in person.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @R.G. Camara

    Rollins was ahead of his time. Hyper masculine, over muscular, aggressive men were rare before he hit the scene. Now they are a dime a dozen. We are all worse off for it so I would say he had a negative influence on a society.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @Brutusale
    @R.G. Camara

    Henry stands all of 5'8"-5'9". Little man syndrome.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

  138. @Old Prude
    What kind of bull sh** list is this? No Bluegrass? No Zydeco? No Tuvan Throat Warbeling? And Rap isn’t even music.

    And who listens to the radio nowadays? I didn’t know the thing was still around. Just turn on Pandora and down vote any song you’ve grown to hate.

    Replies: @Tom F., @Sparkon

    Yeah, no category for “The ’60s,” which made it impossible for anyone to vote for the greatest decade in Rock music.

    Well, this long set is for all you guys and gals who missed the ’60s, especially the early ’60s during the JFK years.

    Runaway
    Del Shannon
    1961

    Nine more below the tag…

    [MORE]

    Runaround Sue
    Dion & the Belmonts
    1962

    Johnny Angel
    Shelley Fabres
    1962

    And Then He Kissed Me
    Crystals
    1963

    Rag Doll
    Frankie Valli & Four seasons
    1964

    Along Comes Mary
    The Association
    1966

    California Dreaming
    Mamas & Papas
    1966

    Up, Up and Away
    The 5th Dimension
    1967

    Stormy
    Classics IV
    1968

    Get Together
    Youngbloods
    1969

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Sparkon

    I see.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wMesI8aiw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyNvFoFWu4A

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlNhD0oS5pk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygLg-7G0Xp0

    , @Gary in Gramercy
    @Sparkon

    You missed one:

    https://youtu.be/QrJlyapt6OY?si=v7wxDUgbGjTxCvu0

    , @FPD72
    @Sparkon

    Thanks for the songs and the memories they evoke. Some comments:

    The Association is the only group featured that I ever saw perform live. It was one of the better concerts I’ve attended.

    Marilyn McCool of the Fifth Dimension was a good a female vocalist as I’ve ever heard.

    I don’t know anything about the songwriter, Chet Powers, other than he had a drug problem and he played with Quicksilver Messenger Service, but Get Together is filled with Christian imagery, beyond just Christ’s command to his followers to “love one another.” Consider this stanza:
    “ Some may come and some may go
    He will surely pass
    When the one that left us here
    Returns for us at last
    We are but a moment's sunlight
    Fading in the grass.”
    Christian eschatology combined with the brevity of life from the perspective of eternity. I wish I knew more about the late Mr. Powers.

    Replies: @Sparkon, @Ripple Earthdevil

  139. @R.G. Camara
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Rollins seems like he's very tiresome to talk to. Like, you might agree with him on some things, but if you disagreed he'd be constantly screaming at you in your face about it, and just demand total adherence to his current belief. And given his communistic philosophy there's a lot you'd disagree with. Leno had him on once and he seemed to alternate between charming and psychotic (when it came to politics).

    Given his muscular physique and wide-eyed aggression it could be quite intimidating in person.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Brutusale

    Rollins was ahead of his time. Hyper masculine, over muscular, aggressive men were rare before he hit the scene. Now they are a dime a dozen. We are all worse off for it so I would say he had a negative influence on a society.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Jay Fink

    Rollins was precisely like every other punk/heavy metal guy in terms of personality --- aggressively male--- except he was a lifting freak (most musicians aren't into heavy lifting/body building) and able to get himself onto mainstream platforms like Leno and Bill Maher and rant politics.

    Also, his face looking like a 1960s beach boy/guy next door was deceptive and probably made him more able to reach milktoast folks. Most metal/punk guys go out of their way with wild hairdos and face piercings, but Rollins kept everything above the collar looking normal. Below the nect he was tatted up and jacked, but a decent shirt covered up most of it for mainstream shows.

    Finally, while a lot of musicians make vague lefty statements, Rollins is a psycho true believer. He wanted to bully an opponent into submission or (seemingly) physically get into it. His persona was very similar to Sean Penn's now--all macho aggression posturing, lefty talking points, and insane anger when contradicted.

  140. @guest007
    @AnotherDad

    The other issue, as pointed out by Richard Reeves in his book Dream Hoarders, is that for someone to move into the top 10% financially, someone has to fall out. Given how hard families in the top 10% fight to keep their children in the top ten percent, it is much harder to move up. A blue collar families would be better off thinking in terms of two generations instead of one to make the move.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    It wouldn’t be as much of a problem if the consequences weren’t as severe. Forget everything people usually talk about and thing really long-term. We’re talking who your grandkids are and what their prospects will be, given how associative mating has becoming. So we’ve entered the realm of the biological, where there’s no room for compromise, only will and incentives. That’s something that will cause fanaticism in what kind of jobs that their kid can have and who they can go to school with, no matter how unconscious it is.

    Perhaps part of the solution would be to make communities based around something other than shared professional strata more possible. At the end of the day, government action can never be a solution to this, it can only shift the probabilities and terrain involved.

    • Replies: @guest007
    @nebulafox

    I believe the term is assortative mating and means that physicians marry each other while nurses marry firemen or hospital administrators.


    A better path for blue collar families or anyone in the lower 50% of economics in the U.S. would be to get their children into nursing school at the local state university and then their children use assortative mating to marry another nurse or healthcare provider so that their children can get to medical school.

  141. anonymous[536] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jay Fink
    @Jonathan Mason

    I am pushing 60 and I can't imagine not listening to music for pleasure. I'm an outlier though, I am very much a music person. I listened to music when I was 5 when none of my peers were into it yet and I'll be listening when I'm 65 or 75 when few of my fellow geezers listen to it. What makes me especially unusual is I still listen to and keep up with current pop and hip hop. I enjoy some of it, more so than hearing the overplayed 80s hits of my teenage years.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Just keep your music off the golf course and everything will be fine.

  142. @Gordo
    For anyone so inclined there is a Flemish language station called Joe Gold on the interweb which plays 6os and 70s stuff which you don’t hear much anywhere else.

    Very little talking, nearly all music, short news in Flemish on the hour.

    Replies: @ydydy

    Whenever I rent a car with Sattelite Radio I listen to (comedy and) French Hip Hop.

    Occasionally I also (used to) find the occasional Public Radio station that’s more interesting than annoying with all sorts of agenda-free interesting stories.

    Public Radio before 2007 was often pretty good.

  143. @Jay Fink
    @anonymous

    That skinny no muscles look described me (still does) and I was a big punk fan as a teen in the early 80s. Then I went to my first punk concert (Social Distortion in 1982) and the crowd wasn't my fellow skinny no muscle nerds. It was a very edgy, hardcore group of people I couldn't relate to. I knew I wasn't a punk rocker after all. Today most of it sounds terrible to me although I have a few punk songs saved to my playlists for nostalgia sake.

    Replies: @Ministry Of Tongues, @Captain Tripps

    There was a change in the scene. From aesthetes like X and Suburban Lawns to… the Orange County Army (but in truth many outlying areas). Younger, almost all male, conformist, much more aggressive.

    • Agree: Jay Fink
  144. The Washington Post just won a Pulitzer Prize for a series of articles about the AR-15 and guess what? That is some GREAT INFORMATION in favor of the 2nd Amendment in those articles.

  145. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an intriguing analysis of the music industry.

    https://akinokure.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-mirage-of-raps-popularity-how.html

    The mirage of rap's popularity: How streaming stats mislead vs. sales and airplay

     


    Looking over the top 100 songs for 2020, I was struck yet again by how much rap there is. I've noticed this for the past several years, and figured I was just out of touch with that area of pop music, since I don't listen to rap radio stations, don't know anyone who's really into rap, and don't go to clubs that play rap. Still, it just seemed like a growing presence that was not my cup of tea.

    But having studied the seismic shift that streaming has had on the music culture, I can finally make some sense of it. Rap is in fact a niche genre, with a few crossover hits to mainstream audiences. However, the media elites who construct the chart formulas have put their thumb on the scale in order to over-emphasize rap's popularity and influence, at the expense of truly popular genres like pop, country, and dance.

    The formal trick they use is giving substantial weight to streaming stats, which do not distinguish between breadth vs. depth of exposure. And popularity is about breadth of exposure across the entire music-listening population, not the depth of devotion among fans who expose themselves repeatedly to the song, as opposed to casual fans who expose themselves to it far fewer times.

    So if you too were wondering why there's so much emphasis on rap in the media, you weren't crazy. It's another example of woke representation practices, meant to buy off the "talented tenth" of African-Americans, who get employment in the entertainment sector, and placate the bottom 90% of them with cultural cred -- rather than the entertainment and media elites using their high status to lobby the Democrats into providing desperately needed public goods and services.

     





    First, a clarification -- the Billboard charts are a product of the media sector, not entertainment. The record labels produce the music, the artists perform it, and various other channels distribute it to the audience (radio stations, clubs, streaming platforms, etc.). Billboard is more of a trade publication than a cultural commentary one, but it's still part of the media sector, albeit the entertainment-focused media.

    So, this is not a case of the production side making a ton of rap songs that nobody wants to listen to. Nor is it the distributors taking a niche genre and foisting it on users of their platforms like YouTube, radio stations, and so on. Those two sides are too driven by the cold, hard laws of supply & demand to attempt to deliver a bunch of stuff that is largely unwanted.

    However, the media who describe and comment on entertainment are under no such constraints. Or rather, their supply & demand laws are different because their audience is not listeners of music per se, but readers of music-themed discourse. Their audience wants to read takes, and spit out takes of their own, which is orthogonal to what types of music they enjoy listening to.

    It's perfectly possible, then, for Billboard to mischaracterize the state of supply & demand in the music industry, if doing so will satisfy the cravings of discourse junkies. It would be wrong to call this "foisting" their narrative onto the music-listening public, because the typical music fan probably never looks at the Billboard charts. Those who do consume media commentary on music, though, evidently eat up the narrative about how influential rap is, so the media outlets are not foisting the misleading description onto their audience either -- they're just supplying the demand for a certain narrative.

    But if you do want an overall accurate picture of what the zeitgeist is like, out of curiosity, just bear in mind that the media chart creators can and do rig the outcome in order to please their target audience above all else. It won't be totally outta whack, since such a picture would not even be plausible, and the audience wants the illusion of reality as well as the ideologically soothing distortions. Still, something to take into account.


    * * *


    Now, the basic problem. For the 2020 Hot 100 chart, I count 30-some rap songs. Not a majority, but still a sizable share. And to anyone who's been in touch with music this year, way too many. What gives?

    Well, the Hot 100 chart is actually made up of several component charts. The three with heaviest weighting are sales of singles (i.e. digital downloads), radio airplay, and streaming plays. As of 2013, these carry weightings of 35-45%, 30-40%, and 20-30%, respectively, and the weightings change week to week.

    The shifting weekly weightings is the first obvious sign that the chart creators are using these stats to rig the desired outcome, otherwise the weightings would stay the same in order to judge all songs by the same set of standards. In one week, one weighting will accomplish the goal of maximizing rap at the expense of pop, dance, and country, while a different weighting will be needed for another week, since each week's batch of songs perform somewhat differently relative to one another.

    For example, if the sales stats favor pop over rap by a huge amount in week 1, and to a lesser degree in week 2, then the chart-riggers will have to give a lower weight to sales in week 1 than in week 2.

    Let's turn to Billboard's Digital Songs sales chart, of which their website lists only the top 75. For the 2020 chart, I count about 10 of the rap songs that are also on the Hot 100 chart, and several others that are not. Scaling that to a list of 100 by sales, that would be about 15-20 rap songs -- in other words, only half as many as actually appear on the Hot 100 chart.

    Not only is rap less pervasive on the sales chart, but big hit songs you've been hearing all year do in fact show up, while they're mysteriously missing from the Hot 100 chart. "Kings and Queens" by Ava Max, "Midnight Sky" by Miley Cyrus, and "Stupid Love" by Lady Gaga in the dance genre. "Lover" and "Cardigan" by Taylor Swift in the adult contempo genre. And a slew of country songs I don't recognize because I'm not in the target demographic. Again, that's only for the 75 songs listed on their website; if they had a full list of 100, there would be more staples of the zeitgeist in those genres that were kept out of the Hot 100.

    When I looked over the sales chart, it felt 10 times more familiar than what's listed on the Hot 100 chart. And that's not just from what I seek out deliberately -- it's from what I hear in any public place that plays music, what's on while changing radio stations, what's popular on Tik Tok trends, what a popular streamer like Pokimane plays in the background while chatting, what anyone is talking about, what online memes refer to... literally every source of pop culture other than the music media itself.

    There is a heavy overlap between the sales and Hot 100 charts, since the big-picture narrative from the Hot 100 chart cannot be totally divorced from reality. Still, it's striking how disoriented a normal music listener -- who doesn't care about woke ideology being reflected in the list -- would get from there being a sizable minority of fake rap songs shoehorned in, and the same number of actually popular dance / pop / country songs erased from the record.


    * * *


    As for radio airplay, Billboard doesn't list their top 100 songs online, but by genre it must reflect the distribution of radio station listenership size by genre (called a "format"). See Nielsen's overview of the top radio formats at the end of 2019.

    There is no dedicated rap or hip-hop format, but they are included under the urban contemporary and (to a lesser degree) the urban adult contemporary formats. So however well those formats do, rap must do worse, since urban contempo (and especially urban AC) also includes a bunch of R&B songs.

    Among music stations playing current music, the formats with the largest listenership size are adult contempo, country, and pop, followed by hot AC and urban AC, with urban contempo lagging down with Mexican regional. Notice that this is the opposite ranking of which genres are artificially boosted on the Hot 100 chart.

    Even more telling is the fact that Mexican regional does not get over-represented on the Hot 100, despite the potential wokeness cred that the chart-riggers could enjoy from doing so, and despite it being as popular or more so on the radio than rap. However, the cultural commentators and their audiences don't find Mexican culture interesting, other than the food, and they don't feel as strong of a need to "heal historical traumas" or "correct the historical record" by amplifying recognition of Mexican culture today, as compared to African-American culture.

    The same goes for the Spanish contempo format, which is about as popular as rap (if not urban contempo as a whole, due to R&B's popularity), and is as popular as alternative. But listening to reggaeton enough to have an opinion on it one way or another, let alone actually dancing to it in a club with thicc-booty Cuban girls, would absolutely mortify the dorky white liberal males who control the music-themed media sector, and make up most of the audience as well.

    "Spanish music" is still too dance-oriented and corporeal for it to appeal to the cerebral types who are take junkies and media consumers. There's no pretension in the lyrics about "telling a larger story," "raising awareness," etc., and there's no raw angsty attitude like in modern rap, which in many ways has become the black version of punk -- non-musical angst, verbal focus, and a basic beat without melodic instruments.

    When rap is (slightly) more melodic, dance-oriented, and aimed at dudes and dudettes grinding on each other in a club, rather than individuals stewing in angst alone in their room, music media people lose all interest. Suddenly it's just a pretext for animalistic booty-shaking. Like all good cerebrals, they only condone sex-having and lust in music if it's centered around boobs (elevating) rather than butts (sinful).


    * * *


    That leaves only streaming as the component of the Hot 100 that must be artificially boosting the popularity of rap, and diminishing that of pop, dance, and country. This component reflects all the big platforms -- YouTube, Spotify, et al.

    The first problem with streaming is the youth bias: 55% of Spotify users are aged 18-34. And in Nielsen's radio listenership article, urban contempo skyrockets to 4th place in that age group, while Mexican regional and Spanish contempo lag far behind. Giving greater weight to streaming means giving rap more representation compared to pop, country and Spanish-language music.

    But there's a far greater distortion that comes from using streaming stats. Billboard uses the total number of plays across streaming media (in the US), which could be a lot of people listening a few times each (a broadly popular fad song), or a few diehards listening to it over and over again (a niche song that will last forever in the fanbase).

    That makes streaming unlike sales of songs, where one sale could be listened to one time or one million times -- it's still measuring the song's exposure to just one individual. Diehard fans do not skew the overall results by listening to their purchases many times more than casual fans who bought the same song. Total sales of a song = total individuals exposed directly.

    And it's also unlike radio airplay, which takes audience size into account. They use the share of radio listeners tuned into a certain station for at least 5 minutes during a 15-minute interval. If a song is played in that interval, that audience size is about how many people were exposed to the song.

    Even if someone tunes into the station and hears that song every day, it doesn't skew the overall results because they aren't adding to the audience size by tuning in every day -- it's roughly the same size from one week to the next. Diehard fans may be tuning in every day, while casual fans only listen some days of the week -- but the total size stays about even because some casual fans who are absent on one day are made up for by other casual fans who are tuning in that day. (And when those casuals tune out later in the week, the casuals who were tuned out earlier in the week show up to replace them.)

    So if anything, radio airplay is skewed more by casual listeners than by diehard fans, since the total number of casual listeners is hardly all present on any given day. Thus, the station's listenership is larger than it would appear from a snapshot in time. And assuming some song is a regular in the station's playlist throughout the week, it's reaching a broader audience than it would appear from a snapshot. Like sales, radio airplay measures breadth rather than depth.

    The streaming stats could be made accurate by measuring the total number of unique individuals who played the song during a given interval, regardless of how many times they played it. Spotify could do that, since their users have to have downloaded the app and be signed in. But YouTube does not require you to even have an account, let alone be signed in, to search for and play videos. And big hits get in the 100s of millions of views on YouTube (albeit globally), so that is no small problem with aggregating streaming stats across all platforms.

    I guess YouTube could try tracking how many unique IPs within the US played a video in a given interval, regardless of number of times played. But they're not doing that.

    And the larger point is they don't want to -- it would ruin their goal of over-representing rap in the Hot 100 chart, to construct the narrative of how influential a certain part of African-American culture is in the broader society. Using youth-biased streaming stats, with a substantial and shifting weighting, and measuring total plays rather than audience size, are just the technical means toward the end of narrative construction.
     

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Anon Cubed, @R.G. Camara, @The Last Real Calvinist, @Anon

    Speaking of rap, this rap video, from Harvard Medical School (!), might just have finished off the genre itself. Never before has human endeavour plumbed such depths of cringe:

    • Agree: mc23
  146. I was never sure that it wasn’t “You make love in fun,” which seemed more appropriate for the time.

  147. @Tono Bungay
    I live in France and am amazed at how many places play American oldies. Motown is especially common.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    I live in France and am amazed at how many places play American oldies. Motown is especially common.

    I live in Hong Kong, and travel quite a bit, and can confirm that US nostalgia tunes seem to be everywhere. Motown is indeed common, although there is an awful lot of 80s music out there also. I can’t count the number of times and places in recent years I’ve been in a restaurant or bar or store in a number of Asian/European contexts, and have heard a playlist that could have been lifted straight from KG95 out of Sioux City, IA, circa 1984.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    There is a thriving heavy metal scene in Indonesia, I discovered.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    LRC,

    Where did daughter LRC wind up going to school (generally) if you don't mind me asking?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  148. @Jay Fink
    @Anon

    I hate that song with a passion. What a nightmare that it's never stopped being played since it was new over 40 years ago. Besides being terribly burned out on it I never could relate to the Jack character.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Reg Cæsar

    The song is a dig at small town rubes, so of course it’s going to get played all the time.

  149. @Known Fact
    @SFG

    If Metal and Christian are so widely disliked, imagine the plight of Christian Metal groups like Stryper. My wife actually thought I was making stuff up when I told her Christian Metal really is a thing, and there's really a song called To Hell With the Devil. I will spare you the full version ...

    https://youtu.be/n00JzNM3vGA?si=BKAnHDMAp6khYjgS

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Thanks for this trip down memory lane . . . BTW, do you know why they’re called ‘Stryper’? It’s an allusion to Isaiah 53:5, i.e. ‘with his stripes we are healed’.

    After 35 years, I am still not quite sure if this is edifying or blasphemous, or maybe both.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Yeah, they always flash that Isaiah 53:5 on their vids and whatnot (Like that guy at the football games with the John 3:16 sign), Of course they went a little crazy with the all-too-literal stripes motif

  150. @ScarletNumber

    Fleetwood Mac’s “Dreams,”
     
    Their only number 1 hit, but off-hand I couldn't think which song this was just from the title. Just from listening to it, I probably would have called it "Thunder Only Happens When It's Raining". At any rate this album also produced Don't Stop, You Make Loving Fun, and Go Your Own Way, with the first of those enjoying a resurgence 32 years ago during the campaign and victory of Bill Clinton.

    These days’ [sic] radio stations seem to play each band’s most popular song vastly more often than even it’s [sic] second most popular song.
     
    Wow, two extraneous apostrophes in one sentence. In any event I'm not sure I would agree with this observation, as New York's classic rock station Q104 seems to play most of the Beatles' popular catalog pretty consistently, but perhaps the Beatles are a poor example as they had so many hits.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Captain Tripps

    To me, “The Chain” is by far the best song on the Rumours album. “You Can Go Your Own Way” is a distant second.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Captain Tripps

    I only listed the four songs from the album that were released as singles, but I neglected to mention that they were all Top 10 hits. The Chain was not released as one, but I enjoy it as well. In fact it still gets airplay on Q104 in NYC.

    , @Old Virginia
    @Captain Tripps

    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.

    Therefore "Songbird" is the best song on Rumours, "You Make Loving Fun" a not-too-distant second.

    (B-Side "Silver Spring" by Christine McVie's friend, Stevie Nicks, should have been a contender... a gorgeous record.)

    Replies: @Curle, @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps

  151. OT: Drake, the most successful black music artist of the 21st century, is currently in the beginning stages of getting Me Too’d with swirling accusations of hosting grooming parties for underage girls in Toronto.

    I propose the creation of ‘The Cosby Law’. The Cosby Law, which can be considered a footnote of sorts to Derbyshire’s The Talk, states that the likelihood of a black celebrity to have skeletons in the closet regarding sexual, drug-related or violent criminal behaviour is exponentially higher than a celebrity of any other race. Even the mega famous, apparently clean-cut ones, given enough time, generally end up displaying anti-social behaviour (e.g. Whitney Houston ending up a crack addict; Michael Jackson having multiple accusations of child abuse across different decades; Will Smith attacking Chris Rock at the Oscars; or Solange violently beating Jay-Z in the elevator while Beyonce looked on unfazed, indicating that she approved and that this was a common occurrence in the Carter-Knowles household).

  152. @Jay Fink
    @anonymous

    That skinny no muscles look described me (still does) and I was a big punk fan as a teen in the early 80s. Then I went to my first punk concert (Social Distortion in 1982) and the crowd wasn't my fellow skinny no muscle nerds. It was a very edgy, hardcore group of people I couldn't relate to. I knew I wasn't a punk rocker after all. Today most of it sounds terrible to me although I have a few punk songs saved to my playlists for nostalgia sake.

    Replies: @Ministry Of Tongues, @Captain Tripps

    I know it’s their most popular sing, but “Bad Luck” has always rocked me since I first heard it in ’92. Too bad Ness is a dense leftard.

  153. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:

    WHFS (early 80s)

  154. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Known Fact

    Thanks for this trip down memory lane . . . BTW, do you know why they're called 'Stryper'? It's an allusion to Isaiah 53:5, i.e. 'with his stripes we are healed'.

    After 35 years, I am still not quite sure if this is edifying or blasphemous, or maybe both.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Yeah, they always flash that Isaiah 53:5 on their vids and whatnot (Like that guy at the football games with the John 3:16 sign), Of course they went a little crazy with the all-too-literal stripes motif

  155. Noticed what’s going on in Palestine yet?

  156. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Tono Bungay


    I live in France and am amazed at how many places play American oldies. Motown is especially common.

     

    I live in Hong Kong, and travel quite a bit, and can confirm that US nostalgia tunes seem to be everywhere. Motown is indeed common, although there is an awful lot of 80s music out there also. I can't count the number of times and places in recent years I've been in a restaurant or bar or store in a number of Asian/European contexts, and have heard a playlist that could have been lifted straight from KG95 out of Sioux City, IA, circa 1984.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jim Don Bob

    There is a thriving heavy metal scene in Indonesia, I discovered.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @nebulafox

    I found videos from these three lasses when I was vegetating on a courtroom bench while waiting for jury duty.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU420zwX7do

    An interesting take, and one I'm not fully on board with, from Rick Beato.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEWRyugvjgQ

    By his metric, Dave Grohl is the greatest rocker ever!

    Replies: @nebulafox

  157. Whether it’s I-95, Q-102 or Z-103, the absolute annual high holy days of classic rock are the Memorial Day or July 4 weekend-long countdowns of the top 500 songs of all time. (No doubt as officially determined by Price Waterhouse)

    A random trip to Shoprite for potato salad can land you in at 276 — that was Boston, Don’t Look Back. And before that we heard Priest with Turbo Lover. Steffi is out at the Honda dealership all day, y’all stop on by! Back with another 30-minute rock bloc — including number 275 — after this! You might just be rockin with Dokken!

  158. Vinyl records and record players have made a huge comeback. I theorize, optimistically, that many young people are attracted to slowing down: handling the sleeve, admiring the artwork, reading the liner notes, placing the needle carefully upon a particular track.

    And..not just as a solitary activity? I theorize this would be a pleasant substitute for back-in-the-day sharing sundaes at the fountain or diner. And does anyone remember having a small juke box at every booth? Psychologists say strong pair-bonding occurs when an activity is engaged in with your honey at the same time, and the same place, with moment-to-moment synchronicity. Psychologists add that bonding that occurs that way endures. “Would you like to come over to my house and see my vinyl-record collection?”… is that really happening? Maybe somebody who is in the loop can tell me if that is actually happening. Ancient shared-sundaes guy signing-off. Those were the days…I can check-out, but I can never leave.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @SafeNow

    Psychologists say strong pair-bonding occurs when an activity is engaged in with your honey at the same time, and the same place, with moment-to-moment synchronicity.

    Yes, I believe expert scientists refer to this as "sex." The next best thing was making a cassette mix tape for someone you were sweet on. Not sure what the modern equivalent might be.

    Anyway, in the days of vinyl looking though friends' huge stacks of meticulously alphabetized records was always a fun time, alhough with girlfriends it was usually fruitless and discouraging -- Harry Chapin, Cat Stevens, Streisand, maybe some early Beatles or Heart. One shocked me out of the blue asking to go see Tull, fortunately UK was the opener.

    I also alphabetized my stack, so when UPS lost one box during a move there went Wishbone Ash to Yes

    Replies: @SafeNow

  159. @Sparkon
    @Old Prude

    Yeah, no category for "The '60s," which made it impossible for anyone to vote for the greatest decade in Rock music.

    Well, this long set is for all you guys and gals who missed the '60s, especially the early '60s during the JFK years.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSWMJxbxj7c

    Runaway
    Del Shannon
    1961

    Nine more below the tag...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6oLjo4R2aQ

    Runaround Sue
    Dion & the Belmonts
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw67OOjZ3oE

    Johnny Angel
    Shelley Fabres
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkum4B162M

    And Then He Kissed Me
    Crystals
    1963

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXo1zAwIwnw

    Rag Doll
    Frankie Valli & Four seasons
    1964

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFTLu4stOw

    Along Comes Mary
    The Association
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NJayW1kOeM

    California Dreaming
    Mamas & Papas
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-SO8JcsvWU

    Up, Up and Away
    The 5th Dimension
    1967

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Sua_QTDs0

    Stormy
    Classics IV
    1968

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xGxQXmu7Os

    Get Together
    Youngbloods
    1969

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Gary in Gramercy, @FPD72

    I see.

    [MORE]

  160. As Greg Allman said, ‘rap’ is short for ‘crap.’

  161. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Winslow, Arizona actually has "Standing on a Corner ... in Winslow, Arizona" on their welcome sign. That'd be like Harrisburg putting "Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk" on theirs...

    (Rockville MD has "Please come back to ... Rockville") [REM deep cut]

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Gary in Gramercy

    That’d be like Harrisburg putting “Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk” on theirs…

    Better brags for Harrisburg would be “Route 66” (Bobby Troup) and “Free Ride” (Dan Hartman).

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Cherry Coupe"; "Shut Down" (Beach Boys)

    "Drive my Car" (The Beatles)

    , @obwandiyag
    @Reg Cæsar

    Huh? Harrisburg isn't in Route 66.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  162. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Winslow, Arizona actually has "Standing on a Corner ... in Winslow, Arizona" on their welcome sign. That'd be like Harrisburg putting "Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk" on theirs...

    (Rockville MD has "Please come back to ... Rockville") [REM deep cut]

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Gary in Gramercy

    The Clash also name-checked Harrisburg (“The Clampdown” from London Calling) more than a decade before Kraftwerk’s remix and rewritten lyrics for “Radio Activity” (on 1991’s The Mix). I have a hunch there are other Harrisburg mentions, but can’t think of them right now.

    Rockville (MD) had — for almost 25 years — Yesterday and Today Records, a great store where Peter Buck would have been proud to work.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Gary in Gramercy


    The Clash also name-checked Harrisburg
     
    Elvis Costello used Poughkeepsie as a cheap rhyme for "tipsy":

    Nine Popular Songs That Incorporate Poughkeepsie In The Lyrics

    Bah. They did it better in 1937, when Edythe Wright sounded more grown-up at 20 than Steve Nicks or any of her contemporaries do in their 70s:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Apbfisel8yk


    She'd've gotten me through the Depression!

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  163. @SafeNow
    Vinyl records and record players have made a huge comeback. I theorize, optimistically, that many young people are attracted to slowing down: handling the sleeve, admiring the artwork, reading the liner notes, placing the needle carefully upon a particular track.

    And..not just as a solitary activity? I theorize this would be a pleasant substitute for back-in-the-day sharing sundaes at the fountain or diner. And does anyone remember having a small juke box at every booth? Psychologists say strong pair-bonding occurs when an activity is engaged in with your honey at the same time, and the same place, with moment-to-moment synchronicity. Psychologists add that bonding that occurs that way endures. “Would you like to come over to my house and see my vinyl-record collection?”… is that really happening? Maybe somebody who is in the loop can tell me if that is actually happening. Ancient shared-sundaes guy signing-off. Those were the days…I can check-out, but I can never leave.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Psychologists say strong pair-bonding occurs when an activity is engaged in with your honey at the same time, and the same place, with moment-to-moment synchronicity.

    Yes, I believe expert scientists refer to this as “sex.” The next best thing was making a cassette mix tape for someone you were sweet on. Not sure what the modern equivalent might be.

    Anyway, in the days of vinyl looking though friends’ huge stacks of meticulously alphabetized records was always a fun time, alhough with girlfriends it was usually fruitless and discouraging — Harry Chapin, Cat Stevens, Streisand, maybe some early Beatles or Heart. One shocked me out of the blue asking to go see Tull, fortunately UK was the opener.

    I also alphabetized my stack, so when UPS lost one box during a move there went Wishbone Ash to Yes

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Known Fact

    Yes, sex is a shared-moment-to-moment, pair-bonding activity. But your comment that playing with cassettes or LPs is a “next best thing” really got me thinking. Maybe it’s exactly the opposite? It’s hard to think back that far, but my guess is that a shared LP experience with a crush girlfriend - - if it was a good one, with a lot of laughs - - would leave me very happy, confident, and even infatuated, if that was what I was open to at the time.

  164. @Sparkon
    @Old Prude

    Yeah, no category for "The '60s," which made it impossible for anyone to vote for the greatest decade in Rock music.

    Well, this long set is for all you guys and gals who missed the '60s, especially the early '60s during the JFK years.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSWMJxbxj7c

    Runaway
    Del Shannon
    1961

    Nine more below the tag...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6oLjo4R2aQ

    Runaround Sue
    Dion & the Belmonts
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw67OOjZ3oE

    Johnny Angel
    Shelley Fabres
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkum4B162M

    And Then He Kissed Me
    Crystals
    1963

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXo1zAwIwnw

    Rag Doll
    Frankie Valli & Four seasons
    1964

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFTLu4stOw

    Along Comes Mary
    The Association
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NJayW1kOeM

    California Dreaming
    Mamas & Papas
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-SO8JcsvWU

    Up, Up and Away
    The 5th Dimension
    1967

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Sua_QTDs0

    Stormy
    Classics IV
    1968

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xGxQXmu7Os

    Get Together
    Youngbloods
    1969

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Gary in Gramercy, @FPD72

    You missed one:

  165. @Jay Fink
    @Anon

    I hate that song with a passion. What a nightmare that it's never stopped being played since it was new over 40 years ago. Besides being terribly burned out on it I never could relate to the Jack character.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Reg Cæsar

    I never understood how the entire Bible Belt could come and save his soul.

    Like Seger and Loaf, Mellencamp thought sex in a motor vehicle a proper subject for the public airwaves. But there wasn’t enough room in the back seat of Jackie’s two-door muscle car, so they took it outside.

    His first hit song was decent background music, but you almost never hear it anymore. Kind of how they never play Rush’s catchy “Fly By Night”, while constantly inflicting us with the execrable and preachy “Tom Sawyer”. Some songs are cryptic and obscure, while others whack you over the head with their message. This piece manages to do both simultaneously.

    In the case of Al Stewart, the two they overplay are still pretty good. Someone here mentioned Sunset Boulevard. He was driving that stretch when “Year of the Cat” came on the radio. When it was done, he switched stations, and heard it again. He figured Californians appreciated him more than his fellow Brits did, and decided to settle there. He’s in Napa Valley now, which must be heaven for an œnophile like him.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well I'll just get this out of the way and dare somebody to come punch me in the nose, but "Down Bad" is Taylor Swift, bless her pointed little head, getting all into all sorts of crazee James Joyce turf... and I'm not even a fan, but there we go. from swerve of shore to bend of bay.

    "Down bad, waking up in blood." Best lyric in twenty years, if you disagree just come and try to take the Filson out of my hand.

    Back to your comment...

    I must say, "Fly by Night" is the catchiest, most salvageable song from their long sojourn in the wilderness (feck me if I don't know what THAT's like) before "2112" breakthrough; but I think you're being a bit too hard on "Tom Sawyer". I can get that some people might get annoyed by it, but c'mon buddy give it a second hear, it's got its charms.

    FUN FACT: back when I was a kid reading about this stuff in Circus and Creem Magazines and didn't have enough money to buy actual records, I mean except for RAMONES records, I thought that "2112" must have been like a ZIP code or something....

  166. @Cagey Beast
    @Frau Katze


    the opposition Conservative Party actually mentioned immigration in their latest email.
     
    It's amazing how bad it had to get before the party of car dealers, real estate agents and accountants said anything against this Ponzi scheme immigration policy.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bg3psxZ_pRg

    Replies: @epebble

    This one for U.S. Has good music too.

  167. @Mike Tre
    There are several music subscriptions that you can purchase for around $10 per month, that allow you to listen to any specific genre or sub-genre of music ad free on your cell phone or laptop. If you have bluetooth in your car, then you have all the music you like free of the ever increasingly ridiculous advertising that takes up about 25 minutes of an hour of FM radio.

    I'm not sure how expensive satellite radio is, but the last time I was in a car that had it, they still hit you with ads.

    Last I heard "classic rock" stations now play Nirvana and RHCP, and quite a bit less Floyd, Zeppelin, and Hendrix.

    Replies: @cthulhu

    I’m not sure how expensive satellite radio is, but the last time I was in a car that had it, they still hit you with ads.

    SiriusXM only does ads on the talk stations AFAIK. At least on the music channels I listen to – Underground Garage, Deep Tracks, First Wave, Beatles Channel, Classic Vinyl, B.B. King’s Bluseville – there are no ads. Most of the channels I listen to have DJs, which I thought was odd initially, but on the Underground Garage in particular, the DJs are very much added value, really knowledgeable and personable people who know their stuff. Lenny Kaye, on UG Monday and Tuesday nights, is fantastic; this is the guy who compiled the classic Nuggets collections, after all, plus playing guitar for Patti Smith.

    My only complaint with SXM is that some of the channels are too tightly constrained, but the Underground Garage is not – which is part of why I listen to it the most. Would hate to do without it.

    • Thanks: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @cthulhu

    Thanks - I use an app called deezer. It's 11 bucks a month, and I have the music in my car, my work truck, my headphones at the gym, laptop, portable speaker, anywhere I want because the app is on my phone and I can hook it up to any bluetooth device. It has every piece of music I ever ever searched for, from rock to classical to Sinatra to Roll the Old Chariot Along. I can save favorite artists, albums, genres - create limitless playlists of your own, or just pick a genre and the app will feed you tunes, if you like or dislike one you can input feedback to hear that tune more or not at all. Zero ads, no DJ's, no interruptions, just unlimited music.

    I don't even use itunes anymore because this far exceeds itunes' costs and limitations.

  168. @NotAnonymousHere
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Every single g-d m-fing c-sing one of your posts is about how superterrificexcellenttriumphant you are.
    You win the Miles Mathis Medal
    with Jussie Smollett Cluster.
    Dude.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @bomag

    Sort of an interesting cri du coeur from somebody who’s never really accomplished anything worth talking about, comparatively speaking. Well, y’know… sleep in a few gutters and then get back to me. I’m still here sleeping in gutters like I always do, I’m still here. Waiting for your autobiography, or your Obras Completas.

    But do look me up sometime, after you do something worth translating into twenty or thirty languages and can finally compare dicks with; I have a standing table at the Chateau des Artistes, I’ll buy you a glass of coke or sumpin. Nazdrovi’a.

  169. @Gary in Gramercy
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    The Clash also name-checked Harrisburg ("The Clampdown" from London Calling) more than a decade before Kraftwerk's remix and rewritten lyrics for "Radio Activity" (on 1991's The Mix). I have a hunch there are other Harrisburg mentions, but can't think of them right now.

    Rockville (MD) had -- for almost 25 years -- Yesterday and Today Records, a great store where Peter Buck would have been proud to work.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The Clash also name-checked Harrisburg

    Elvis Costello used Poughkeepsie as a cheap rhyme for “tipsy”:

    Nine Popular Songs That Incorporate Poughkeepsie In The Lyrics

    Bah. They did it better in 1937, when Edythe Wright sounded more grown-up at 20 than Steve Nicks or any of her contemporaries do in their 70s:

    She’d’ve gotten me through the Depression!

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah, but do they pick their feet in Poughkeepsie?

    Still can't believe they did that "undercover / lover " rhyme way back in the day, I thought it was corny when Jon Anderson did it in the 70s.

  170. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.

    Only in some places. U.S. is a vast country. There are plenty of places with affordable homes. It is just that people have to figure out not to crowd into same crowded places. Not everyone has to live in NYC or California. With remote working etc., it is even more possible to spread out.

    I looked up some random examples:

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/671-Smith-Ave-Elba-AL-36323/109242442_zpid/

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/101-E-Saint-Francis-St-Dexter-MO-63841/348538699_zpid/

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/107-N-18-1-2-Ave-Paragould-AR-72450/76186137_zpid/

  171. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jay Fink

    I never understood how the entire Bible Belt could come and save his soul.

    Like Seger and Loaf, Mellencamp thought sex in a motor vehicle a proper subject for the public airwaves. But there wasn't enough room in the back seat of Jackie's two-door muscle car, so they took it outside.

    His first hit song was decent background music, but you almost never hear it anymore. Kind of how they never play Rush's catchy "Fly By Night", while constantly inflicting us with the execrable and preachy "Tom Sawyer". Some songs are cryptic and obscure, while others whack you over the head with their message. This piece manages to do both simultaneously.

    In the case of Al Stewart, the two they overplay are still pretty good. Someone here mentioned Sunset Boulevard. He was driving that stretch when "Year of the Cat" came on the radio. When it was done, he switched stations, and heard it again. He figured Californians appreciated him more than his fellow Brits did, and decided to settle there. He's in Napa Valley now, which must be heaven for an œnophile like him.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Well I’ll just get this out of the way and dare somebody to come punch me in the nose, but “Down Bad” is Taylor Swift, bless her pointed little head, getting all into all sorts of crazee James Joyce turf… and I’m not even a fan, but there we go. from swerve of shore to bend of bay.

    “Down bad, waking up in blood.” Best lyric in twenty years, if you disagree just come and try to take the Filson out of my hand.

    Back to your comment…

    I must say, “Fly by Night” is the catchiest, most salvageable song from their long sojourn in the wilderness (feck me if I don’t know what THAT’s like) before “2112” breakthrough; but I think you’re being a bit too hard on “Tom Sawyer”. I can get that some people might get annoyed by it, but c’mon buddy give it a second hear, it’s got its charms.

    FUN FACT: back when I was a kid reading about this stuff in Circus and Creem Magazines and didn’t have enough money to buy actual records, I mean except for RAMONES records, I thought that “2112” must have been like a ZIP code or something….

  172. anonymous[638] • Disclaimer says:
    @Trinity
    @Mark G.

    Where I lived the punk rockers and hippies hated the disco 💃 crowd mainly because the aforementioned group couldn’t dance or were socially awkward. If you were young what was not to like about the disco era.

    Cue: Do You Wanna Go Party by KC And Sunshine Band. The radio never plays this banger, but chooses That’s The Way I Like It or Get Down Tonight instead. This tune was so fine in 79.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Truer words were never spoken. In 1976 or 1980, if you weren’t intimidated by pretty girls, you at least pretended to like Disco.

  173. @jb
    As I remember it, when I was a kid in the 60s "oldies" weren't a thing. The radio played nothing but the latest hits, and then eventually they would stop playing the old songs and move on to newer hit songs, and you rarely heard the old ones after that. There was such a flood of new music that it left no room in the rotation for old music, and it didn't seem like anyone wanted to hear it anyway. Then at some point -- late 60s? early 70s? -- I started hearing the term "golden oldies", and there started to be radio stations dedicated to golden oldies, and I thought "how nice, they are playing those great old songs again". I distinctly remember this as being a new thing! Does anyone else remember it that way?

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    Yeah, more or less. I was a kid then who listened to a lot of AM radio back then and there were always a lot of “oldies”. Most were only a few years old but it was obvious to me even as a preteen how much the music had changed starting circa 1965 from the earlier 50’s through early 60’s style.

  174. @DenverGregg
    other than rap/hip hop, i like or love much music from all the listed genres, with the qualifier that i loathe the excessive and often artificial percussion that mars so much of what's been released in the past thirtyish years and the casual nihilism in songs like You Light Up My Life.

    my favorite current act is Scott Bradlee's Postmodern Jukebox. Mr. Bradlee's schtick is that he makes arrangements of pop songs in older styles that are wildly different than the popular version, an example is a setting of My Heart Will Go On that emulates Jackie Wilson.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    Wasn’t Debby Boone an overtly Christian artist and the “You” Jesus Christ himself? Where’s the nihilism?

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @DenverGregg
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    "it can't be wrong when it feels so right" is straight-up nihilism

  175. @onetwothree
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    And all of that led to 5,299 comments on unz.com. Fight Fiercely, Harvard!

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Let me ask you… has a total stranger ever come up to you on the street and kissed you and said, Thank you for doing that! Has anybody from a foreign country ever sent you a thank-you note? Has anybody ever said to you, I don’t really know precisely what that WAS, but I do know that it changed my life.
    — Anyone? Bueller?

    Yeah you and me, let’s grab a drink and compare notes some time.

    Meanwhile, keep counting somebody else’s internet comments, I’m sure that’s a great pastime.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    In defense of onetwothree, Unz tells us directly that you have 5,308 comments consisting of approximately 466,400 words; no one has to count them.

  176. @Reg Cæsar
    @Gary in Gramercy


    The Clash also name-checked Harrisburg
     
    Elvis Costello used Poughkeepsie as a cheap rhyme for "tipsy":

    Nine Popular Songs That Incorporate Poughkeepsie In The Lyrics

    Bah. They did it better in 1937, when Edythe Wright sounded more grown-up at 20 than Steve Nicks or any of her contemporaries do in their 70s:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Apbfisel8yk


    She'd've gotten me through the Depression!

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yeah, but do they pick their feet in Poughkeepsie?

    Still can’t believe they did that “undercover / lover ” rhyme way back in the day, I thought it was corny when Jon Anderson did it in the 70s.

  177. “The Washington Post has a fun article about which genres of music are most popular with Americans: the winner, by far, is Classic Rock (which centers around 1970s electric guitar music)”

    It is telling that Country music is more popular than Rap/Hip Hop, and RHH in it’s modern commercialized form goes back at least to the early mid 90’s.

    Don’t forget though, that Disco was the ’70’s (and was very successful) and technically that’s probably played under the rubrick of Classic Rock as well.

    So, regarding the likes of say, Elvis. Where does that leave him? Because he had a hit “Burning Love” (1972) and a few hits in the ’70’s, but not necessarily immediate first name when one thinks of the ’70’s.

    Elvis. Is he out or is he still in, still played on classic rock radio? Would think that a special exception should be made for Elvis, as he was one of the founders of what became known as rock in general.

    Did you hear much of Elvis being played on LA’s big 3 radio stations over last few yrs on your driving trips, Steve?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Very little Elvis Presley. He released two all time great singles in 1968, Burnin' Love and Suspicious Minds, but those are beyond the 52 year limit, just like Hey Jude and Honky Tonk Women, which I also didn't hear.

    The Cal State Northridge station would be the most likely to play Elvis because it's aimed at white people with 3 digit IQs who might still appreciate Elvis's role in American cultural history even if they weren't 13 yet when his last great singles were released.

  178. @Reg Cæsar
    @The Only Catholic Unionist


    That’d be like Harrisburg putting “Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk” on theirs…
     
    Better brags for Harrisburg would be "Route 66" (Bobby Troup) and "Free Ride" (Dan Hartman).

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @obwandiyag

    “Cherry Coupe”; “Shut Down” (Beach Boys)

    “Drive my Car” (The Beatles)

  179. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "The Washington Post has a fun article about which genres of music are most popular with Americans: the winner, by far, is Classic Rock (which centers around 1970s electric guitar music)"

    It is telling that Country music is more popular than Rap/Hip Hop, and RHH in it's modern commercialized form goes back at least to the early mid 90's.

    Don't forget though, that Disco was the '70's (and was very successful) and technically that's probably played under the rubrick of Classic Rock as well.

    So, regarding the likes of say, Elvis. Where does that leave him? Because he had a hit "Burning Love" (1972) and a few hits in the '70's, but not necessarily immediate first name when one thinks of the '70's.

    Elvis. Is he out or is he still in, still played on classic rock radio? Would think that a special exception should be made for Elvis, as he was one of the founders of what became known as rock in general.

    Did you hear much of Elvis being played on LA's big 3 radio stations over last few yrs on your driving trips, Steve?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Very little Elvis Presley. He released two all time great singles in 1968, Burnin’ Love and Suspicious Minds, but those are beyond the 52 year limit, just like Hey Jude and Honky Tonk Women, which I also didn’t hear.

    The Cal State Northridge station would be the most likely to play Elvis because it’s aimed at white people with 3 digit IQs who might still appreciate Elvis’s role in American cultural history even if they weren’t 13 yet when his last great singles were released.

  180. @onetwothree
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    And all of that led to 5,299 comments on unz.com. Fight Fiercely, Harvard!

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Oh, don’t be a jackass for your whole life.

    Do you have any idea in the world who wrote this? Yeah, sure, you can say the name in the credit like any good monkey can, but do you KNOW who Lou Reed was? Some time I’ll tell you my hilarious Lou Reed taxicab story, if you’re worth it.

    That song was written by Lou Fucking Reed. Do you know who Lou Reed is? Do you know that he was tortured with electric-shock treatments by his own parents when he was a teenager, because they were trying to “cure” him from being gay?

    And anyone who’s ever had a dream.
    And anyone who’s ever had a heart.
    And anyone who’s ever been lonely.
    And anyone who’s ever been… torn apart.

    What do you think you know about anyone, EVER?

    What do you think you know about me? (And yeah, six steps ahead of ya, no, I’m not gay, and I’m not coming out here online for heaven’s sakes.)

    Didn’t see YOU behind the gas station garbage bin on Wilshire. Didn’t see you at the Emmys either.

    What exactly do you think you know about things?

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yeah, Lou Fucking Reed...he'd have been better off letting the colored girl doot-t-doot for an hour instead of dropping this turd.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB1cEyy0fKs

    Replies: @cthulhu

  181. @Reg Cæsar
    @The Only Catholic Unionist


    That’d be like Harrisburg putting “Suck It New York, we got name-checked by Kraftwerk” on theirs…
     
    Better brags for Harrisburg would be "Route 66" (Bobby Troup) and "Free Ride" (Dan Hartman).

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @obwandiyag

    Huh? Harrisburg isn’t in Route 66.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @obwandiyag


    Huh? Harrisburg isn’t in Route 66.
     
    Bobby Troup, who wrote it, hailed from Harrisburg.

    ("In" Route 66?)
  182. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    In the old days, disk jockeys would get bored and play other songs, but I’m sure now MBAs have moneyballed playlists.
     
    They evidently have. Classic Rock and Pop stations seem to play the same 20 or so songs over and over. They must have calculated what playlist minimizes their outlays on royalties. They also have a lot more commercials than they used to and the ads have gone noticeably down-market - personal injury attorneys, title-pawn outfits, etc. That's because only poor people (or really cheap people) listen to broadcast radio anymore.

    Get off the dial, Steve. Sirius isn't that expensive - you can afford it - and you'll have a lot more music to listen to (Sirius deep cut channels play almost everything).

    Replies: @Anonymous

    That’s because only poor people (or really cheap people) listen to broadcast radio anymore.

    You could be right. However, I am sceptical that only offering advertisers access to poor and/or cheap people would be enough to keep a radio station going in a major metropolitan market in the US.

    Admittedly, there was a time when I did think terrestrial radio was on its way out. However, between the remaining mom-and-pop operations and non-commercials entities like university stations, I came around to the view that there still truly is “something for everyone,” provided you are willing to set up a decent antenna and take the time to tune around to see what you can find.

    Sirius isn’t that expensive – you can afford it – and you’ll have a lot more music to listen to (Sirius deep cut channels play almost everything).

    What kind of financial condition is Sirius in in the 2020s? For a time, Sirius seemed likely to implode, but I have not followed their financials since shortly after the XM merger.

    Offhand, it appears Sirius’ viability hinges primarily on the willingness of new car manufacturers to install their receivers in new cars. Should that willingness ever evaporate (i.e. car manufacturer start pushing their own subscription-based entertainment services à la Tesla), it isn’t clear to me whether their are enough stand-alone receivers to keep them financially viable.

  183. @Captain Tripps
    @ScarletNumber

    To me, "The Chain" is by far the best song on the Rumours album. "You Can Go Your Own Way" is a distant second.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Old Virginia

    I only listed the four songs from the album that were released as singles, but I neglected to mention that they were all Top 10 hits. The Chain was not released as one, but I enjoy it as well. In fact it still gets airplay on Q104 in NYC.

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps
  184. @guest007
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Almost Missouri

    Supposedly one of the reasons that California hosts the global tech epicenter—and otherwise remains competitive and productive despite its incompetent administration—is that non-compete agreements are void there.

    This does make logical sense. Non-competes are simply a contractual way to suppress employees’ wages, signed when employees have inferior bargaining power. Voiding non-competes simply means paying employees what they are worth. Result: California has high wages. There are things wrong with California, but this does not seem to be one of them.

  185. @Anonymous
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's funny how half your posts are about how terrible Jews are and the other half (written in a much more sincere and personal style) are about how great Harvard, New York, the artsy-farts who inhabit them, and "avant-garde experimental theater" are. Revealed preference much?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Oh I don’t know.

    You seem like sort of a thoughtful fellow, let’s step into this a bit if you don’t mind.

    I dunno, people who don’t want to hear a long, windy, rather tiresome self-justification may want to hit IGNORE right about…. now.

    I knew by the time I was five years old that I was an artist, that my job was going to be to make beautiful things — and not only that they were beautiful, but that they were spiritual in a way, things that you should contemplate, and consider, and come away from with something in your bag which was particular; and that was the only thing I was ever cut out for. It’s sort of why people unintentionally freak out when they see me on the street — lots of people make cool things, but I make COOL things. When I was a kid my father, who never even graduated high school, used to call me up out of the basement to watch a no-hitter on TV, he knew I would get it like I got a Bob Wilson opera: “Look at this — there is NOTHING going on! The pitchers are duelling, and NOTHING is happening! It’s great!!” I got it right away.

    That is why I did everything that I did — in furtherance of this insane goal, to make things which people could not understand, but which they somehow, under the table, DID understand. WHY is the Shakespeare girl wearing a nylon stocking for a mask and sitting on top of a refrigerator like the Cheshire Cat when it’s 90 degrees and there’s a Frank Zappa song playing?! WHY is the lunatic kid doing those strange impossible flips on a skateboard in Greenpoint? WHAT’S with all the car headlights in the middle of the night in a schoolyard in Brooklyn?! Why is Lorne Michaels always so mad at me?! It’s why strangers come up to me and kiss me on the street. Yeah, sure, whatever, I went to fancy scholarship schools, and then I had not one but two nervous breakdowns, and then slept on the street on Ventura Blvd and in Mexican movie theatres, and behind the 24/7 convenience store at Wilshire and Barrington (Steve probably knows where it is… maybe he even gave me spare change.) While working in ERs… hell, you want to talk about a third nervous breakdown.

    It was all to serve something else, something I can’t put a finger on. All I know is, I would die if I didn’t do it. And I know from the thank-you letters in my desk drawer from all over the world that other people would have died if I didn’t do it, too. The late great Hal Wilner told me so.

  186. @AnotherDad
    @Twinkie



    Then home prices will fall dramatically.
     
    So, is your goal to immiserate the old folks by destroying the value of the only asset most of them own and, thereby, also destroy what little legacy their kids will inherit?

    Billionaires don’t have most of their net worth in homes, average homeowners do.
     
    I usually agree with your comments Twinkie, but this one is silly. It reeks of some weird Scroogeish "sit on my pile of gold" attitude. Houses do not exist to be a financial asset they are a place for families to live.

    First off, old folks sitting in a paid off home should not be--at all--the group national policy looks after. A nation survives by making sure the young coming up are healthy, productive and able--and oriented to--have build families, have children to carry the nation forward.

    But beyond that what the hell difference does the inflated value of a home make ... if you have or care about your children?

    I've got a couple of paid for houses worth ballpark 2.5-3ish. Peachy--in theory. But what I--being normal--actually care about is my children. It doesn't make any difference if these houses are worth a million plus or 300k each if I'm going to hand them over--directly or indirectly--to my kids. And I've got three kids, so much easier/better if it's the smaller nut to cover a house for kid number 3. (Not to mention we have to live somewhere in the interim as well.) And beyond my kids--fortunate to have parents with some assets--there's all the other American kids! If they work hard and keep their nose clean, they are suppose to be able to afford the American dream as well.

    No houses, cars, computers, clothing, food, energy ... becoming more affordable is better. Especially houses, as we want our kids to be able to afford them, so they can have their families and carry on our nation.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Houses do not exist to be a financial asset they are a place for families to live.

    That’s nice in theory, but the problem is that – for the vast majority of middle class families – a house is the biggest purchase they will ever make and it is pretty much the only source of investment/savings they have. And it’s going to be the only major asset that most Americans pass down to their children. That’s the reality of the American middle class today. Simply destroying the value of these – their only investments – in the hopes that this would make housing more affordable for the young and, therefore, increase family formation is risky, because it is not guaranteed that lower housing prices will lead to more births. Let me illustrate:

    Look at the collapse of real estate property value in Japan from 1990 to 2010. Now look at the fertility pattern during the same time – it continued to fall despite the collapse of home prices. Lower housing price leading to higher family formation (among the young) is a plausible theory, but the evidence is not powerful, because lower family formation in the post-modern era is not simply an economic phenomenon. Back when Audacious Epigone used to blog here actively, he found that only ONE factor had a very robust correlations to fertility – women’s education attainment levels.

    This is also borne out in other developed countries. In South Korea, the fertility famously has collapsed to the lowest level in the entire world – concurrently more recent cohorts of South Korean women have college degree attainment rate of 80-90%.

    No houses, cars, computers, clothing, food, energy … becoming more affordable is better.

    Unlike all the rest of the items you listed, a house is not a rapidly depreciating consumer good. It’s an asset into which people will often invest considerable sums with a strong expectation of long-term appreciation.

    There is a problem or a paradox of sorts here. Young people will buy homes and invest in their communities and the future of the same if they feel that the biggest purchase they will ever make in their lives will grow in value significantly over time (conversely, you don’t see people flocking to Detroit or Baltimore despite inexpensive homes). But then if this future finally arrives, then the next generation is “priced out” of the area and will bemoan high prices. But then if you are somehow* able to diminish the value of the existing stock of homes (which, of course, will damage the quality of life by negatively affecting schools and other services that depend on taxes levied on the value of the homes), then it sends a signal to the future (young) prospective buyers that houses are poor investments and will dissuade them from making more durable investments into owning them and putting roots down, forming families, and developing their communities.

    I don’t have good answers here. But there should be some thought given to unintended consequences of simplistic policy prescriptions like “lower housing prices.”

    It reeks of some weird Scroogeish “sit on my pile of gold” attitude.

    My kids have trusts from my wife and me, from my parents and from my wife’s parents. My houses could collapse in value to nothing and they will still be better off than 99% of Americans economically. My comment does not originate from “some weird scroogeish” attitude, but from a concern for ordinary Americans for whom their houses are their only significant assets.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Twinkie

    "ordinary Americans for whom their houses are their only significant assets"

    But they are above all not "a significant asset" but a place to live in and raise a family.

    By the asset metric it would be great if prices quadrupled tomorrow. I agree generally with your posts, but think you have a significant blind spot here.

    I have already helped to fund my elder children's house purchases, and hope to do the same for the younger ones. Any value in my house (worth now around 6x what I paid for it 25 years ago - crazy) is neither here nor there, as (hopefully) by the time we're both dead they'll be past mating/childbearing age.

  187. @AnotherDad
    @res

    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.

    Also, not sure why you're using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?

    It's self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.

    30-35: 4.3 -- 3.9
    25-30: 3.3 -- 2.9
    20-25: 3.0 -- 2.6

    but it's even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts--below 35 at least--are smaller. A 33 year old Chinese dude settled into a career and trying to court say a 28 year old woman is looking at a cohort gap (4.3 -- 2.9) of over a quarter. Imagine how entitled the girls get with that? Youch!

    The one positive: this should be eugenic. The downside: lots of single men around is not a recipe for social peace.

    The Chinese are boneheads. While frontline--"we've got to reduce our population growth!"--understandable, the math here was very very basic, and the social effects very predictable. The correction should have come at least a couple decades earlier in the 90s--2 children with eugenic "high quality" exemptions for more.

    Then again the Chinese stupidity pales beside the "must have immigration!" inanity of West, much less the full on Maoist level "screw Americans!" open border of the "Biden Administration".

    Replies: @SFG, @YetAnotherAnon, @res

    “the Chinese real estate bubble has popped.”

    I’ve been reading about “ghost cities” since around 2013, so I take with a pinch of salt stuff about the Chinese economy. Anyway, imagine a US or UK with hundreds of thousands of empty houses? It would be a paradise where prices would be low.

    Just returned from a European holiday – a LOT of Chinese tourists, quite a number with small children. Either they are the Chinese elites, in which case they don’t act like them (a Chinese woman gave up her seat for my wife because she was using a crutch post-injury), or their middle classes are starting to enjoy the good life.

    They were still however outnumbered by Americans, mostly from cruise ships.

  188. @Arclight
    @SFG

    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it's a relic of what are considered better times - before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America's largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture. Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it's never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children. Listening to that genre of music is both nostalgia and a form of escapism.

    There *was* a better time and our rulers killed it stone dead on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of current teens and maybe young 20 somethings keep the classic rock/folk Americana/outlaw country genres going strong as a sort of reaction to mongrelized culture they get stuffed down their throats. No doubt academics will note this and start churning out courses and papers on the oppressiveness and white supremacist elements of its popularity, as it overlooks black blues and guitar pioneers that gifted America with this form of music and are not property acknowledged today.

    I did take some satisfaction in the hate for rap. It's truly music for retards and it's only positive use is in the gym, and even then I can't take it for long.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Goddard, @Anon

    Just speaking personally, it’s a relic of what are considered better times . . .

    Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it’s never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children.

    Those songs are a funeral dirge for a dying people.

  189. @Twinkie
    @AnotherDad


    Houses do not exist to be a financial asset they are a place for families to live.
     
    That's nice in theory, but the problem is that - for the vast majority of middle class families - a house is the biggest purchase they will ever make and it is pretty much the only source of investment/savings they have. And it's going to be the only major asset that most Americans pass down to their children. That's the reality of the American middle class today. Simply destroying the value of these - their only investments - in the hopes that this would make housing more affordable for the young and, therefore, increase family formation is risky, because it is not guaranteed that lower housing prices will lead to more births. Let me illustrate:

    https://i0.wp.com/japanpropertycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Tokyo-property-price-index-1984-2022.jpg

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WLO_5vAXIgI/TcoKYKUozaI/AAAAAAAAASM/QKrAi3ti8ZQ/s1600/Japan+Fertility+Rate.JPG

    Look at the collapse of real estate property value in Japan from 1990 to 2010. Now look at the fertility pattern during the same time - it continued to fall despite the collapse of home prices. Lower housing price leading to higher family formation (among the young) is a plausible theory, but the evidence is not powerful, because lower family formation in the post-modern era is not simply an economic phenomenon. Back when Audacious Epigone used to blog here actively, he found that only ONE factor had a very robust correlations to fertility - women's education attainment levels.

    This is also borne out in other developed countries. In South Korea, the fertility famously has collapsed to the lowest level in the entire world - concurrently more recent cohorts of South Korean women have college degree attainment rate of 80-90%.


    No houses, cars, computers, clothing, food, energy … becoming more affordable is better.
     
    Unlike all the rest of the items you listed, a house is not a rapidly depreciating consumer good. It's an asset into which people will often invest considerable sums with a strong expectation of long-term appreciation.

    There is a problem or a paradox of sorts here. Young people will buy homes and invest in their communities and the future of the same if they feel that the biggest purchase they will ever make in their lives will grow in value significantly over time (conversely, you don't see people flocking to Detroit or Baltimore despite inexpensive homes). But then if this future finally arrives, then the next generation is "priced out" of the area and will bemoan high prices. But then if you are somehow* able to diminish the value of the existing stock of homes (which, of course, will damage the quality of life by negatively affecting schools and other services that depend on taxes levied on the value of the homes), then it sends a signal to the future (young) prospective buyers that houses are poor investments and will dissuade them from making more durable investments into owning them and putting roots down, forming families, and developing their communities.

    I don't have good answers here. But there should be some thought given to unintended consequences of simplistic policy prescriptions like "lower housing prices."


    It reeks of some weird Scroogeish “sit on my pile of gold” attitude.
     
    My kids have trusts from my wife and me, from my parents and from my wife's parents. My houses could collapse in value to nothing and they will still be better off than 99% of Americans economically. My comment does not originate from "some weird scroogeish" attitude, but from a concern for ordinary Americans for whom their houses are their only significant assets.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    “ordinary Americans for whom their houses are their only significant assets”

    But they are above all not “a significant asset” but a place to live in and raise a family.

    By the asset metric it would be great if prices quadrupled tomorrow. I agree generally with your posts, but think you have a significant blind spot here.

    I have already helped to fund my elder children’s house purchases, and hope to do the same for the younger ones. Any value in my house (worth now around 6x what I paid for it 25 years ago – crazy) is neither here nor there, as (hopefully) by the time we’re both dead they’ll be past mating/childbearing age.

  190. @Anonymous
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's funny how half your posts are about how terrible Jews are and the other half (written in a much more sincere and personal style) are about how great Harvard, New York, the artsy-farts who inhabit them, and "avant-garde experimental theater" are. Revealed preference much?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    If you think when you hear this, that you are just hearing some groovy 70s white chick having a bop on the piano, then we aren’t really hearing the same thing….

    Same way, if you hear this and don’t realize how terrifying it is, or why, then, same deal.

    Like the Jerky Boys used to say, I’ll bring all my glasses. And all my shoes. So I have dem.

    DAN AYCKROYD, 1970s: You look at the floor, and all you see is the floor. I look at the floor, and what I see is MOLECULES.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's funny, but I was just thinking the other day how well "Mud Slide Slim" stands up now compared with "Tapestry", when at the time of release they were rated pretty much alongside each other.

    Carole King does however seem like a very nice woman. Plays piano on this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvUgsdfLkbU

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @res

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Well sorry but you can maybe forgive me for spluttering a teensy widdle bit WHEN I JUST HAD 25 ARMED NAZIS STORM INTO MY HOUSE AND SEARCH THE PLACE TOP TO BOTTOM OVER FUCKING NOTHING. Well. OK fine. Got that out of the way.

    Let's get back to Carole King, shall we. What a career -- had something like a dozen Top Twenty Billboard Hits before she was like 25, how many people can say that? And also partly by accident inspired the great avant-garde opera "Einstein on the Beach" and I bet she was so busy getting stoned in Laurel Canyon that she didn't even know that happened.

    You have to forgive me for having a soft spot for Carole -- c'mon, I grew up playing "Do the Locomotion" in bars. One of the things I love about her is that, somehow, her piano groove doesn't require a backing drum kit -- the percussion line is somehow also alive inside of her piano line. It reminds you of how basically, the piano is actually a percussion instrument. If you don't believe me, just play "I Feel the Earth Move" and you'll see what I mean.

    I feel the earth move.
    I feel the tumbling down tumbling down.
    There was a judge who like puts in a court.
    And the judge could have like what able way like how into this.
    And this could be like ways of judges and courts and jails.
    That could make you happy.
    That could make you mad. That could make you sad. Or that could make you jealous.
    So do you know a jail is. A judge and a court could.

    So this could be like into some ways into those green Christmas trees.
    So Santa Claus has about red.
    And now the Einstein trial is now the Einstein on the Beach.
    So this could be like what I saw in.
    Lucy or a kite. You raced all the way up. This is a race.
    So this could be where of eight of types into a pink rink.
    So here we go.

    I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the tumbling down I feel some ostriches are like into a satchel some like them.
    I feel the earth move.
    Carole King.

  191. @JohnnyWalker123
    Here's an intriguing analysis of the music industry.

    https://akinokure.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-mirage-of-raps-popularity-how.html

    The mirage of rap's popularity: How streaming stats mislead vs. sales and airplay

     


    Looking over the top 100 songs for 2020, I was struck yet again by how much rap there is. I've noticed this for the past several years, and figured I was just out of touch with that area of pop music, since I don't listen to rap radio stations, don't know anyone who's really into rap, and don't go to clubs that play rap. Still, it just seemed like a growing presence that was not my cup of tea.

    But having studied the seismic shift that streaming has had on the music culture, I can finally make some sense of it. Rap is in fact a niche genre, with a few crossover hits to mainstream audiences. However, the media elites who construct the chart formulas have put their thumb on the scale in order to over-emphasize rap's popularity and influence, at the expense of truly popular genres like pop, country, and dance.

    The formal trick they use is giving substantial weight to streaming stats, which do not distinguish between breadth vs. depth of exposure. And popularity is about breadth of exposure across the entire music-listening population, not the depth of devotion among fans who expose themselves repeatedly to the song, as opposed to casual fans who expose themselves to it far fewer times.

    So if you too were wondering why there's so much emphasis on rap in the media, you weren't crazy. It's another example of woke representation practices, meant to buy off the "talented tenth" of African-Americans, who get employment in the entertainment sector, and placate the bottom 90% of them with cultural cred -- rather than the entertainment and media elites using their high status to lobby the Democrats into providing desperately needed public goods and services.

     





    First, a clarification -- the Billboard charts are a product of the media sector, not entertainment. The record labels produce the music, the artists perform it, and various other channels distribute it to the audience (radio stations, clubs, streaming platforms, etc.). Billboard is more of a trade publication than a cultural commentary one, but it's still part of the media sector, albeit the entertainment-focused media.

    So, this is not a case of the production side making a ton of rap songs that nobody wants to listen to. Nor is it the distributors taking a niche genre and foisting it on users of their platforms like YouTube, radio stations, and so on. Those two sides are too driven by the cold, hard laws of supply & demand to attempt to deliver a bunch of stuff that is largely unwanted.

    However, the media who describe and comment on entertainment are under no such constraints. Or rather, their supply & demand laws are different because their audience is not listeners of music per se, but readers of music-themed discourse. Their audience wants to read takes, and spit out takes of their own, which is orthogonal to what types of music they enjoy listening to.

    It's perfectly possible, then, for Billboard to mischaracterize the state of supply & demand in the music industry, if doing so will satisfy the cravings of discourse junkies. It would be wrong to call this "foisting" their narrative onto the music-listening public, because the typical music fan probably never looks at the Billboard charts. Those who do consume media commentary on music, though, evidently eat up the narrative about how influential rap is, so the media outlets are not foisting the misleading description onto their audience either -- they're just supplying the demand for a certain narrative.

    But if you do want an overall accurate picture of what the zeitgeist is like, out of curiosity, just bear in mind that the media chart creators can and do rig the outcome in order to please their target audience above all else. It won't be totally outta whack, since such a picture would not even be plausible, and the audience wants the illusion of reality as well as the ideologically soothing distortions. Still, something to take into account.


    * * *


    Now, the basic problem. For the 2020 Hot 100 chart, I count 30-some rap songs. Not a majority, but still a sizable share. And to anyone who's been in touch with music this year, way too many. What gives?

    Well, the Hot 100 chart is actually made up of several component charts. The three with heaviest weighting are sales of singles (i.e. digital downloads), radio airplay, and streaming plays. As of 2013, these carry weightings of 35-45%, 30-40%, and 20-30%, respectively, and the weightings change week to week.

    The shifting weekly weightings is the first obvious sign that the chart creators are using these stats to rig the desired outcome, otherwise the weightings would stay the same in order to judge all songs by the same set of standards. In one week, one weighting will accomplish the goal of maximizing rap at the expense of pop, dance, and country, while a different weighting will be needed for another week, since each week's batch of songs perform somewhat differently relative to one another.

    For example, if the sales stats favor pop over rap by a huge amount in week 1, and to a lesser degree in week 2, then the chart-riggers will have to give a lower weight to sales in week 1 than in week 2.

    Let's turn to Billboard's Digital Songs sales chart, of which their website lists only the top 75. For the 2020 chart, I count about 10 of the rap songs that are also on the Hot 100 chart, and several others that are not. Scaling that to a list of 100 by sales, that would be about 15-20 rap songs -- in other words, only half as many as actually appear on the Hot 100 chart.

    Not only is rap less pervasive on the sales chart, but big hit songs you've been hearing all year do in fact show up, while they're mysteriously missing from the Hot 100 chart. "Kings and Queens" by Ava Max, "Midnight Sky" by Miley Cyrus, and "Stupid Love" by Lady Gaga in the dance genre. "Lover" and "Cardigan" by Taylor Swift in the adult contempo genre. And a slew of country songs I don't recognize because I'm not in the target demographic. Again, that's only for the 75 songs listed on their website; if they had a full list of 100, there would be more staples of the zeitgeist in those genres that were kept out of the Hot 100.

    When I looked over the sales chart, it felt 10 times more familiar than what's listed on the Hot 100 chart. And that's not just from what I seek out deliberately -- it's from what I hear in any public place that plays music, what's on while changing radio stations, what's popular on Tik Tok trends, what a popular streamer like Pokimane plays in the background while chatting, what anyone is talking about, what online memes refer to... literally every source of pop culture other than the music media itself.

    There is a heavy overlap between the sales and Hot 100 charts, since the big-picture narrative from the Hot 100 chart cannot be totally divorced from reality. Still, it's striking how disoriented a normal music listener -- who doesn't care about woke ideology being reflected in the list -- would get from there being a sizable minority of fake rap songs shoehorned in, and the same number of actually popular dance / pop / country songs erased from the record.


    * * *


    As for radio airplay, Billboard doesn't list their top 100 songs online, but by genre it must reflect the distribution of radio station listenership size by genre (called a "format"). See Nielsen's overview of the top radio formats at the end of 2019.

    There is no dedicated rap or hip-hop format, but they are included under the urban contemporary and (to a lesser degree) the urban adult contemporary formats. So however well those formats do, rap must do worse, since urban contempo (and especially urban AC) also includes a bunch of R&B songs.

    Among music stations playing current music, the formats with the largest listenership size are adult contempo, country, and pop, followed by hot AC and urban AC, with urban contempo lagging down with Mexican regional. Notice that this is the opposite ranking of which genres are artificially boosted on the Hot 100 chart.

    Even more telling is the fact that Mexican regional does not get over-represented on the Hot 100, despite the potential wokeness cred that the chart-riggers could enjoy from doing so, and despite it being as popular or more so on the radio than rap. However, the cultural commentators and their audiences don't find Mexican culture interesting, other than the food, and they don't feel as strong of a need to "heal historical traumas" or "correct the historical record" by amplifying recognition of Mexican culture today, as compared to African-American culture.

    The same goes for the Spanish contempo format, which is about as popular as rap (if not urban contempo as a whole, due to R&B's popularity), and is as popular as alternative. But listening to reggaeton enough to have an opinion on it one way or another, let alone actually dancing to it in a club with thicc-booty Cuban girls, would absolutely mortify the dorky white liberal males who control the music-themed media sector, and make up most of the audience as well.

    "Spanish music" is still too dance-oriented and corporeal for it to appeal to the cerebral types who are take junkies and media consumers. There's no pretension in the lyrics about "telling a larger story," "raising awareness," etc., and there's no raw angsty attitude like in modern rap, which in many ways has become the black version of punk -- non-musical angst, verbal focus, and a basic beat without melodic instruments.

    When rap is (slightly) more melodic, dance-oriented, and aimed at dudes and dudettes grinding on each other in a club, rather than individuals stewing in angst alone in their room, music media people lose all interest. Suddenly it's just a pretext for animalistic booty-shaking. Like all good cerebrals, they only condone sex-having and lust in music if it's centered around boobs (elevating) rather than butts (sinful).


    * * *


    That leaves only streaming as the component of the Hot 100 that must be artificially boosting the popularity of rap, and diminishing that of pop, dance, and country. This component reflects all the big platforms -- YouTube, Spotify, et al.

    The first problem with streaming is the youth bias: 55% of Spotify users are aged 18-34. And in Nielsen's radio listenership article, urban contempo skyrockets to 4th place in that age group, while Mexican regional and Spanish contempo lag far behind. Giving greater weight to streaming means giving rap more representation compared to pop, country and Spanish-language music.

    But there's a far greater distortion that comes from using streaming stats. Billboard uses the total number of plays across streaming media (in the US), which could be a lot of people listening a few times each (a broadly popular fad song), or a few diehards listening to it over and over again (a niche song that will last forever in the fanbase).

    That makes streaming unlike sales of songs, where one sale could be listened to one time or one million times -- it's still measuring the song's exposure to just one individual. Diehard fans do not skew the overall results by listening to their purchases many times more than casual fans who bought the same song. Total sales of a song = total individuals exposed directly.

    And it's also unlike radio airplay, which takes audience size into account. They use the share of radio listeners tuned into a certain station for at least 5 minutes during a 15-minute interval. If a song is played in that interval, that audience size is about how many people were exposed to the song.

    Even if someone tunes into the station and hears that song every day, it doesn't skew the overall results because they aren't adding to the audience size by tuning in every day -- it's roughly the same size from one week to the next. Diehard fans may be tuning in every day, while casual fans only listen some days of the week -- but the total size stays about even because some casual fans who are absent on one day are made up for by other casual fans who are tuning in that day. (And when those casuals tune out later in the week, the casuals who were tuned out earlier in the week show up to replace them.)

    So if anything, radio airplay is skewed more by casual listeners than by diehard fans, since the total number of casual listeners is hardly all present on any given day. Thus, the station's listenership is larger than it would appear from a snapshot in time. And assuming some song is a regular in the station's playlist throughout the week, it's reaching a broader audience than it would appear from a snapshot. Like sales, radio airplay measures breadth rather than depth.

    The streaming stats could be made accurate by measuring the total number of unique individuals who played the song during a given interval, regardless of how many times they played it. Spotify could do that, since their users have to have downloaded the app and be signed in. But YouTube does not require you to even have an account, let alone be signed in, to search for and play videos. And big hits get in the 100s of millions of views on YouTube (albeit globally), so that is no small problem with aggregating streaming stats across all platforms.

    I guess YouTube could try tracking how many unique IPs within the US played a video in a given interval, regardless of number of times played. But they're not doing that.

    And the larger point is they don't want to -- it would ruin their goal of over-representing rap in the Hot 100 chart, to construct the narrative of how influential a certain part of African-American culture is in the broader society. Using youth-biased streaming stats, with a substantial and shifting weighting, and measuring total plays rather than audience size, are just the technical means toward the end of narrative construction.
     

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Anon Cubed, @R.G. Camara, @The Last Real Calvinist, @Anon

    Record company executives love rap because black artists are dumb enough to sign away their entire rights to the company. That’s the only reason rap gets pushed on us.

  192. @prime noticer
    radio died a long time ago so i wouldn't use the current state of music radio as a gauge of anything. nobody is listening. it went thru the same thing television is going thru now, but 20 years ago. would be like trying to evaluate what television was like during the golden age by trying to see what's playing in 2024.

    Rick Beato has some videos about the decline of music radio in earnest starting around 1997 or so when congress changed various (FCC?) laws and then it was legal for one company to own 50 radio stations... which they promptly did, turning them all into the same station in 1 year. i've posted about this stuff many times. i lived thru this and was working in radio in NYC at the time and can verify most of what Beato says. things went downhill quickly in the late 90s and were well over by the mid 00s.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    I worked in radio for many years and can tell you it was the telecom bill of 1994 signed by Bill Clinton. The ironic thing is radio was just an afterthought in the bill, it was mostly about TV and cable yet it had a larger impact on radio than any other media.

    Companies were all the sudden allowed to own multiple stations in as many cities as they wanted. Clear Channel (now known as iheart) bought the most stations. This consolidation took away much of the competition and stations didn’t try as hard anymore. At this same time new technology was available to pre record (and soon replace) radio DJs. At first radio companies said they would just use this pre recording (called voice tracking ) on fringe times like overnights.

    It didn’t take long before stations started voice tracking nearly 24/7. Not only that, companies would use out of state DJs to record breaks for many stations across the country, often pretending they are local but actually hundreds or thousands of miles away. Losing the live and local aspect of radio was taking away its #1 advantage and it couldn’t have taken place at a worse time as all kinds of new technology was being introduced to compete with radio. This has been going on for a long time now and time spent listening to radio has plummeted.

    Now here is the real reason you hear so much old music on the radio. The older audience is pretty much all that’s left. A lot of young people don’t even know what radio is. They didn’t grow up with it. Stations that target a young audience get terrible ratings today. Classic hits, classic rock and soft rock (Adult Contemporary) stations get excellent ratings from the shrinking and aging pool of people who still listen to the radio.

  193. @Known Fact
    @SafeNow

    Psychologists say strong pair-bonding occurs when an activity is engaged in with your honey at the same time, and the same place, with moment-to-moment synchronicity.

    Yes, I believe expert scientists refer to this as "sex." The next best thing was making a cassette mix tape for someone you were sweet on. Not sure what the modern equivalent might be.

    Anyway, in the days of vinyl looking though friends' huge stacks of meticulously alphabetized records was always a fun time, alhough with girlfriends it was usually fruitless and discouraging -- Harry Chapin, Cat Stevens, Streisand, maybe some early Beatles or Heart. One shocked me out of the blue asking to go see Tull, fortunately UK was the opener.

    I also alphabetized my stack, so when UPS lost one box during a move there went Wishbone Ash to Yes

    Replies: @SafeNow

    Yes, sex is a shared-moment-to-moment, pair-bonding activity. But your comment that playing with cassettes or LPs is a “next best thing” really got me thinking. Maybe it’s exactly the opposite? It’s hard to think back that far, but my guess is that a shared LP experience with a crush girlfriend – – if it was a good one, with a lot of laughs – – would leave me very happy, confident, and even infatuated, if that was what I was open to at the time.

  194. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Arclight
    @SFG

    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it's a relic of what are considered better times - before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America's largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture. Those of us who are in their 40s or older can actually remember this time or grew up in the afterglow and if you have any awareness at all understand it's never coming back and the new era we are entering is going to be a very difficult one for yourself and your children. Listening to that genre of music is both nostalgia and a form of escapism.

    There *was* a better time and our rulers killed it stone dead on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of current teens and maybe young 20 somethings keep the classic rock/folk Americana/outlaw country genres going strong as a sort of reaction to mongrelized culture they get stuffed down their throats. No doubt academics will note this and start churning out courses and papers on the oppressiveness and white supremacist elements of its popularity, as it overlooks black blues and guitar pioneers that gifted America with this form of music and are not property acknowledged today.

    I did take some satisfaction in the hate for rap. It's truly music for retards and it's only positive use is in the gym, and even then I can't take it for long.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Goddard, @Anon

    Rock music of the early 1970s sold more units than any other music in history, from the millions to the tens of millions of LPs. This is because it had been carefully tooled through marketing trial and error to appeal to the masses. But what made it successful back then is the same thing that makes it still successful today-it appeals to the ears of the masses. It really is more innately likable music, which has been proven by its historically massive sales.

  195. Donald Trump told Ali G, the most popular thing in the world is music

    According to Penn Jillette, he never saw Trump show any enjoyment or understanding of music. Of course, that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t, but Penn and Trump did spend a lot of time together when Penn did two tours of duty on The Apprentice.

    Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations

    Here in North Jersey, Fordham, Seton Hall, and Upsala had well-regarded student-run stations, but there were so many popular commercial stations that they never really reached mainstream popularity. Seton Hall (WSOU-FM) has the ability to brand itself Pirate Radio because of its athletics mascot, but the station is fully licensed by the FCC. Ironically its most famous alumnus is Bob Ley the long-time ESPN journalist and anchor. Fordham (WFUV-FM) has too many famous alumni to list.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @ScarletNumber

    Speaking as a pianist, I can sort of tell you, just by looking at Donald Trump's face (I don't really like the guy but neither am I an instinctive fanatical Trump-hater) that he's just sort of tone-deaf: maybe not clinically, but definitely in practical terms.

    Which is to say, musically speaking, he's not an ignoramus, but he's just not programmed to know or appreciate how music is supposed to work. It doesn't kick him in the shins. Doesn't mean he's a moron -- I have a similar malfunction when it comes to refined cooking... I can taste certain basic things A-OK, but when it comes to more complex things, then I am lost, and then girlfriends start to hate me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJPfjrgSkw


    I can't WAIT to get back on Mars.

    , @nebulafox
    @ScarletNumber

    Have you seen how much he's aging in the courtroom? The Presidency didn't age him like that. He's not made for it, and I'm not talking about Trump's actual flaws, like the lack of attention span or the unfortunate habit to go after the suggestions of whoever is next to him. This whole environment is corrosive to his basic nature. Whatever else you can say about Donald Trump, he's a virile dude who lives life to the full: he pumped out Barron when he was nearing 60! Thrives on action, taking the offensive or enduring direct attacks well. But this experience, the suffocating, hypocritical enforced helplessness is almost tailor made to chip away at him internally. Doesn't know how to handle it. I can empathize.

    I suspect if the charges come to nothing, they want to at least mitigate Biden's decrepitude. And if he has to win, they'll be able to attack on that. Isn't that sad? They'd rather have a prematurely aged President than a successful one.

    , @Ministry Of Tongues
    @ScarletNumber


    Here in North Jersey, Fordham, Seton Hall, and Upsala had well-regarded student-run stations
     
    The story of Upsala College is a Steve topic in itself. I'm surprised it isn't better known.

    But WFMU escaped from the disaster and became independent. It's the most anti-commercial music station I know.
  196. @nebulafox
    @guest007

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if the consequences weren't as severe. Forget everything people usually talk about and thing really long-term. We're talking who your grandkids are and what their prospects will be, given how associative mating has becoming. So we've entered the realm of the biological, where there's no room for compromise, only will and incentives. That's something that will cause fanaticism in what kind of jobs that their kid can have and who they can go to school with, no matter how unconscious it is.

    Perhaps part of the solution would be to make communities based around something other than shared professional strata more possible. At the end of the day, government action can never be a solution to this, it can only shift the probabilities and terrain involved.

    Replies: @guest007

    I believe the term is assortative mating and means that physicians marry each other while nurses marry firemen or hospital administrators.

    A better path for blue collar families or anyone in the lower 50% of economics in the U.S. would be to get their children into nursing school at the local state university and then their children use assortative mating to marry another nurse or healthcare provider so that their children can get to medical school.

  197. @Harry Baldwin
    @guest007

    Hiring by potential only works if one can have non-compete agreements so that one can lock in the employees that one is going to have to train.

    Is that really that big a deal? Procter & Gamble is famous for the quality of the training it gives its hires. They are trained in every aspect of the business and rotated between brands to have a broader experience. From talking to young people who worked there, I know that a lot of MBAs starting out are happy to take a position at P&G, and after a few years, with an enhanced resumé, look elsewhere for a company they'd rather work for. And, of course, others stay. It seems to work out.

    Replies: @guest007

    A company hiring MBAs is not training or developing their own employees. Image the old days of the 1950’s when a brokerage could hire someone with a history degree from an Ivy League/Ivy Like and spend months training the person who work in finance. Now those companies hire Harvard MBAs where Harvard did the work to identify who can do the math and then train the person to do the math.

  198. @cthulhu
    @Mike Tre


    I’m not sure how expensive satellite radio is, but the last time I was in a car that had it, they still hit you with ads.
     
    SiriusXM only does ads on the talk stations AFAIK. At least on the music channels I listen to - Underground Garage, Deep Tracks, First Wave, Beatles Channel, Classic Vinyl, B.B. King’s Bluseville - there are no ads. Most of the channels I listen to have DJs, which I thought was odd initially, but on the Underground Garage in particular, the DJs are very much added value, really knowledgeable and personable people who know their stuff. Lenny Kaye, on UG Monday and Tuesday nights, is fantastic; this is the guy who compiled the classic Nuggets collections, after all, plus playing guitar for Patti Smith.

    My only complaint with SXM is that some of the channels are too tightly constrained, but the Underground Garage is not - which is part of why I listen to it the most. Would hate to do without it.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    Thanks – I use an app called deezer. It’s 11 bucks a month, and I have the music in my car, my work truck, my headphones at the gym, laptop, portable speaker, anywhere I want because the app is on my phone and I can hook it up to any bluetooth device. It has every piece of music I ever ever searched for, from rock to classical to Sinatra to Roll the Old Chariot Along. I can save favorite artists, albums, genres – create limitless playlists of your own, or just pick a genre and the app will feed you tunes, if you like or dislike one you can input feedback to hear that tune more or not at all. Zero ads, no DJ’s, no interruptions, just unlimited music.

    I don’t even use itunes anymore because this far exceeds itunes’ costs and limitations.

  199. @Mr. Anon
    @Arclight


    Classic rock objectively has a lot of great bands and tunes so I am not surprised to see it up there, but I think there is more to it than that, possibly at a subconscious level. Just speaking personally, it’s a relic of what are considered better times – before the massive demographic changes, the culture-wide assault on the lives and values of America’s largest (and most important) demographic, a more optimistic and can-do culture.
     
    Sometime during the early summer of 2020, I saw an article somewhere (can't find it now) to the effect that classic pop music of the 70s were the then currently most downloaded songs on Spotify and other platforms, even by younger people. The article attributed it to the sudden desire by so many people for comfort and nostalgia (even nostalgia for a time before they were born) by people plunged into Corona Lockdown World. Of course, the Lockdown regime was the most bizarre, alienating, and dystopian social experiment ever imposed on ................. well, on the entire World. It f**ked with a lot of people's minds and left them all running to the Bee Gees and Ambrosia for a little solace.

    Replies: @Arclight

    Thanks. I think along with that is that to appropriate a phrase, it offers a ‘safe space’ for whites as well, both mentally and in reality if you go to a show. Going to see a rock concert in which you are surrounded by thousands of similar people and an almost zero chance of violence is nice. Going to say an NBA game with pounding rap music throughout and preening ghetto people is something else. You’d have to be insane to go to an actual rap concert – even my teenage son who listens to some of that stuff when asked by a friend to go to one was like “there is no way, I value my life.”

  200. @bomag
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Good suggestions.


    Build tens of millions of new homes.
     
    If economics worked as advertised, I'd think we'd be in the middle of a massive building boom. But as Thomas Malthus suspected, there eventually comes a limiting factor to human existence, and it could well be space where people wants to live.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Yes, and “space where people want to live” includes safe, civic-minded neighbors who celebrate the same holidays. We’re not making any more of that.

  201. @ScarletNumber

    Donald Trump told Ali G, the most popular thing in the world is music
     
    According to Penn Jillette, he never saw Trump show any enjoyment or understanding of music. Of course, that doesn't mean that he doesn't, but Penn and Trump did spend a lot of time together when Penn did two tours of duty on The Apprentice.

    Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations
     
    Here in North Jersey, Fordham, Seton Hall, and Upsala had well-regarded student-run stations, but there were so many popular commercial stations that they never really reached mainstream popularity. Seton Hall (WSOU-FM) has the ability to brand itself Pirate Radio because of its athletics mascot, but the station is fully licensed by the FCC. Ironically its most famous alumnus is Bob Ley the long-time ESPN journalist and anchor. Fordham (WFUV-FM) has too many famous alumni to list.

    https://youtu.be/A-UK40_XkWw&t=432

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @nebulafox, @Ministry Of Tongues

    Speaking as a pianist, I can sort of tell you, just by looking at Donald Trump’s face (I don’t really like the guy but neither am I an instinctive fanatical Trump-hater) that he’s just sort of tone-deaf: maybe not clinically, but definitely in practical terms.

    Which is to say, musically speaking, he’s not an ignoramus, but he’s just not programmed to know or appreciate how music is supposed to work. It doesn’t kick him in the shins. Doesn’t mean he’s a moron — I have a similar malfunction when it comes to refined cooking… I can taste certain basic things A-OK, but when it comes to more complex things, then I am lost, and then girlfriends start to hate me.

    I can’t WAIT to get back on Mars.

  202. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @onetwothree

    Let me ask you... has a total stranger ever come up to you on the street and kissed you and said, Thank you for doing that! Has anybody from a foreign country ever sent you a thank-you note? Has anybody ever said to you, I don't really know precisely what that WAS, but I do know that it changed my life.
    -- Anyone? Bueller?

    Yeah you and me, let's grab a drink and compare notes some time.

    Meanwhile, keep counting somebody else's internet comments, I'm sure that's a great pastime.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    In defense of onetwothree, Unz tells us directly that you have 5,308 comments consisting of approximately 466,400 words; no one has to count them.

  203. @NotAnonymousHere
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Every single g-d m-fing c-sing one of your posts is about how superterrificexcellenttriumphant you are.
    You win the Miles Mathis Medal
    with Jussie Smollett Cluster.
    Dude.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @bomag

    You win the Miles Mathis Medal

    I’ve recently discovered the genre. Fascinating. Weirdly popular; so obtuse on technical matters; big lefty, but makes some sense on social issues.

  204. @R.G. Camara
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Rollins seems like he's very tiresome to talk to. Like, you might agree with him on some things, but if you disagreed he'd be constantly screaming at you in your face about it, and just demand total adherence to his current belief. And given his communistic philosophy there's a lot you'd disagree with. Leno had him on once and he seemed to alternate between charming and psychotic (when it came to politics).

    Given his muscular physique and wide-eyed aggression it could be quite intimidating in person.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Brutusale

    Henry stands all of 5’8″-5’9″. Little man syndrome.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Brutusale

    I don't see little man (5'7-5'9 is average male height) as much as politics ginning him up. His obsession with lifting seems politically based. Basically, I could see Rollins leading a riot for Antifa.

  205. I’m surprised pop music isn’t the most popular, because the name

  206. @nebulafox
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    There is a thriving heavy metal scene in Indonesia, I discovered.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    I found videos from these three lasses when I was vegetating on a courtroom bench while waiting for jury duty.

    An interesting take, and one I’m not fully on board with, from Rick Beato.

    By his metric, Dave Grohl is the greatest rocker ever!

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Brutusale

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXYI77-pqrE

    Help us, Beavis and Butthead. You are our only hope.

    The Vulgar Wave must be revived as an antidote to the life-negating forces of smothering safety, passive-aggressiveness, overly complex social rules, and uncontrolled "empathy". :P

  207. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @onetwothree

    Oh, don't be a jackass for your whole life.

    Do you have any idea in the world who wrote this? Yeah, sure, you can say the name in the credit like any good monkey can, but do you KNOW who Lou Reed was? Some time I'll tell you my hilarious Lou Reed taxicab story, if you're worth it.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa9nN3G2CSg

    That song was written by Lou Fucking Reed. Do you know who Lou Reed is? Do you know that he was tortured with electric-shock treatments by his own parents when he was a teenager, because they were trying to "cure" him from being gay?


    And anyone who's ever had a dream.
    And anyone who's ever had a heart.
    And anyone who's ever been lonely.
    And anyone who's ever been... torn apart.


    What do you think you know about anyone, EVER?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgGjUSEWss


    What do you think you know about me? (And yeah, six steps ahead of ya, no, I'm not gay, and I'm not coming out here online for heaven's sakes.)

    Didn't see YOU behind the gas station garbage bin on Wilshire. Didn't see you at the Emmys either.

    What exactly do you think you know about things?

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Yeah, Lou Fucking Reed…he’d have been better off letting the colored girl doot-t-doot for an hour instead of dropping this turd.

    • LOL: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @cthulhu
    @Brutusale

    Heh…Metal Machine Music, despite all of the revisionist history about it, was really Lou’s fuck-you to his record company at the time, RCA. It was deliberately unlistenable to any but the most devoted musique-concrète masochist, and as such was designed to get Reed out of his contract with RCA. He did eventually end up on Arista, and put out some forgettable discs there, then came back to RCA in the early ‘80s and amazingly enough made several fantastic albums - The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, New Sensations, and New York, to name some. He also talked punk guitar god Robert Quine out of leaving the band and cut a live record after Legendary Hearts was released, and Live in Italy is a gem of an album.

    But MMM…Lou being an asshole, which he apparently did quite often.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  208. Linda Ronstadt arguably The Queen of Rock & Roll ( even though she excelled at country, pop, like Elvis she could sing it all) never receives much airplay from radio stations. She was the face for lead female singers in the 1970’s led the was for all the talented gals that followed her soon after. Was even offered to do a spread for Playboy which she turned, she was a looker in her prime, beautiful eyes. Sure she did lots of remakes but like Elvis, their remakes were always superior to the original. You could almost call her the non dancing version of a female Elvis. Looks, voice, charismatic, humble, etc.

  209. @Captain Tripps
    @ScarletNumber

    To me, "The Chain" is by far the best song on the Rumours album. "You Can Go Your Own Way" is a distant second.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Old Virginia

    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.

    Therefore “Songbird” is the best song on Rumours, “You Make Loving Fun” a not-too-distant second.

    (B-Side “Silver Spring” by Christine McVie’s friend, Stevie Nicks, should have been a contender… a gorgeous record.)

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Old Virginia

    I’m a big fan of FM’s album Bare Trees which was Welch, Kirwan and McVie (Christine) era FM songwriting. I like all of the eras but this may be my favorite and Christine helps make it so.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Old Virginia

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Old Virginia


    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.
     
    All these years I assumed if it wasn't Stevie's voice, it must be Christine's. I had no idea that half the time it wasn't Christine, it was Lindsey. That's the difference between listening and just hearing. I think my mother-in-law listened to Rumours a lot while her daughter was gestating. There's no other way to explain the latter's attraction to it.

    If you're wondering who sang what, and when, it's all here:


    https://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-lead-vocals-songs/


    (And yes, "Black Magic Woman" was theirs before Santana's.)

    Replies: @Old Virginia

    , @Captain Tripps
    @Old Virginia

    Agree. CM had (has?) as great a singing voice as Stevie Nicks; SN had better looks, so the marketing zeitgeist favored/pushed her. To me, at certain points. SN's voice can sound too harsh at the higher decibels. The great thing about a lot of the songs on Rumours is that it reflected the Peyton Place aspect of the band members' interpersonal relationships.

    Replies: @Old Virginia

  210. FPD72 says:
    @Sparkon
    @Old Prude

    Yeah, no category for "The '60s," which made it impossible for anyone to vote for the greatest decade in Rock music.

    Well, this long set is for all you guys and gals who missed the '60s, especially the early '60s during the JFK years.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSWMJxbxj7c

    Runaway
    Del Shannon
    1961

    Nine more below the tag...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6oLjo4R2aQ

    Runaround Sue
    Dion & the Belmonts
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw67OOjZ3oE

    Johnny Angel
    Shelley Fabres
    1962

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkum4B162M

    And Then He Kissed Me
    Crystals
    1963

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXo1zAwIwnw

    Rag Doll
    Frankie Valli & Four seasons
    1964

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFTLu4stOw

    Along Comes Mary
    The Association
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NJayW1kOeM

    California Dreaming
    Mamas & Papas
    1966

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-SO8JcsvWU

    Up, Up and Away
    The 5th Dimension
    1967

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Sua_QTDs0

    Stormy
    Classics IV
    1968

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xGxQXmu7Os

    Get Together
    Youngbloods
    1969

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Gary in Gramercy, @FPD72

    Thanks for the songs and the memories they evoke. Some comments:

    The Association is the only group featured that I ever saw perform live. It was one of the better concerts I’ve attended.

    Marilyn McCool of the Fifth Dimension was a good a female vocalist as I’ve ever heard.

    I don’t know anything about the songwriter, Chet Powers, other than he had a drug problem and he played with Quicksilver Messenger Service, but Get Together is filled with Christian imagery, beyond just Christ’s command to his followers to “love one another.” Consider this stanza:
    “ Some may come and some may go
    He will surely pass
    When the one that left us here
    Returns for us at last
    We are but a moment’s sunlight
    Fading in the grass.”
    Christian eschatology combined with the brevity of life from the perspective of eternity. I wish I knew more about the late Mr. Powers.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    @FPD72

    Yes, thanks. Powers was an interesting guy and you can find his solo versions of "Get Together" online.

    There were a number of hit tunes from the late '60s into and through the '70s that had veiled or overt Christian themes for anyone actually paying much attention to the lyrics, and these hits generally coincided with the Born Again & Jesus Freak movements of that time.

    Just off the top of my head, Pacific Gas & Electric's scorching hit "Are You Ready?" (1970), Tommy James and the Shondells' mystical "Crystal Blue Persuasion" (1969), Eric Burdon's operatic "Sky Pilot" (1968), and Norman Greenbaum's foot-tapper "Spirit In the Sky" ('69-'70) fall into that realm, along with "Get Together," but hold onto your hat for PG&L's classic:



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EiGaEE9v2c

    Get Ready
    Pacific Gas & Electric
    1970

    I don't know, but it's possible "Turn Turn Turn" was the first hit of the Rock Era with lyrics drawn directly from the Bible, but already by that time, some popular music already carried a social or political message, going back to another of Pete Seger's gems "If I Had A Hammer" from 1948, resurrected by PP&M and Trini Lopez in 1963 as part of the Folk Music revival of the mid '50s led by recording artists and live performers like The Kingston Trio, and carried on to some extent by the Smothers Brothers on TV up until the time they were canned by CBS in 1969.

    As for antiwar songs from the '60s, I'll just mention Pete Seger's "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" popularized by the Kingston Trio (1961) and again by Johnny Rivers (1965), "Eve Of Destruction" by Barry McGuire (1965), "Give Peace A Chance" by John Lennon & Yoko Ono (1969), "Fortunate Son" by John Fogerty (1969), and "War" by Edwin Starr (1969). There were others, and a few pro-war tunes as well.

    I think Brian Hyland's "I'm Afraid To Go Home" was the first really melodic popular tune I can remember that sort of put a chill into my bones, and a fear of war into my mind and soul.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkR93-sk3Xg

    I'm Afraid To Go Home
    Brian Hyland
    (1963?)

    Contrast that emotion-stirring ballad about the Civil War with Brian Hyland's big worldwide #1 hit from June 1960 - "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini.".

    And so with a little effort I've managed to bring us full circle back to the beginning of the Sixties to answer the ultimate question:

    Were we having fun yet?

    We were, but unfortunately, it wouldn't last.

    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    @FPD72

    I'm way late on this thread but it hasn't been mentioned that Chester Powers was perhaps better known by his stage name Dino Valenti.

    Interesting interpretation, I always thought of it as a hippy-dippy anthem. I like the version on Jefferson Airplane's first album co-sung by Signe Anderson, before Grace Slick joined the band.

  211. The object of oldies stations is to bring back positive memories of your youth. When some song comes on, you remember that was playing in the background when you had your first kiss. I am a old guy. Now when I hear an old song, I remember the strip club I heard that song in and which dancers danced to it.

  212. @Brutusale
    @nebulafox

    I found videos from these three lasses when I was vegetating on a courtroom bench while waiting for jury duty.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU420zwX7do

    An interesting take, and one I'm not fully on board with, from Rick Beato.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEWRyugvjgQ

    By his metric, Dave Grohl is the greatest rocker ever!

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Help us, Beavis and Butthead. You are our only hope.

    The Vulgar Wave must be revived as an antidote to the life-negating forces of smothering safety, passive-aggressiveness, overly complex social rules, and uncontrolled “empathy”. 😛

    • LOL: Captain Tripps
  213. @ScarletNumber

    Donald Trump told Ali G, the most popular thing in the world is music
     
    According to Penn Jillette, he never saw Trump show any enjoyment or understanding of music. Of course, that doesn't mean that he doesn't, but Penn and Trump did spend a lot of time together when Penn did two tours of duty on The Apprentice.

    Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations
     
    Here in North Jersey, Fordham, Seton Hall, and Upsala had well-regarded student-run stations, but there were so many popular commercial stations that they never really reached mainstream popularity. Seton Hall (WSOU-FM) has the ability to brand itself Pirate Radio because of its athletics mascot, but the station is fully licensed by the FCC. Ironically its most famous alumnus is Bob Ley the long-time ESPN journalist and anchor. Fordham (WFUV-FM) has too many famous alumni to list.

    https://youtu.be/A-UK40_XkWw&t=432

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @nebulafox, @Ministry Of Tongues

    Have you seen how much he’s aging in the courtroom? The Presidency didn’t age him like that. He’s not made for it, and I’m not talking about Trump’s actual flaws, like the lack of attention span or the unfortunate habit to go after the suggestions of whoever is next to him. This whole environment is corrosive to his basic nature. Whatever else you can say about Donald Trump, he’s a virile dude who lives life to the full: he pumped out Barron when he was nearing 60! Thrives on action, taking the offensive or enduring direct attacks well. But this experience, the suffocating, hypocritical enforced helplessness is almost tailor made to chip away at him internally. Doesn’t know how to handle it. I can empathize.

    I suspect if the charges come to nothing, they want to at least mitigate Biden’s decrepitude. And if he has to win, they’ll be able to attack on that. Isn’t that sad? They’d rather have a prematurely aged President than a successful one.

    • Agree: res
  214. @Reg Cæsar
    SiriusXM has a channel they call Mom Jeans. Enough said. They play it on our main street in the mornings. Sirius has also been playing "Night Moves" and "Paradise By the Dashboard Light", which are not exactly family-friendly. The sex-in-a-car genre is as dated as the regretful astronaut one (Bowie, Elton, Nilsson) of a few years earlier.


    "Lounge" was fun while it lasted. Though Jack Jones ribbed them, saying in his day nobody wanted to play the lounge, they all aimed for the main room.


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/33/44/b0/3344b0446621950d767adef2578b084f.jpg

    Replies: @Prester John

    Many of the Sirius stations have the same problem every AM station ever had: It’s the same songs over and over again. And over…and over…z-z-z-z.

  215. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Tono Bungay


    I live in France and am amazed at how many places play American oldies. Motown is especially common.

     

    I live in Hong Kong, and travel quite a bit, and can confirm that US nostalgia tunes seem to be everywhere. Motown is indeed common, although there is an awful lot of 80s music out there also. I can't count the number of times and places in recent years I've been in a restaurant or bar or store in a number of Asian/European contexts, and have heard a playlist that could have been lifted straight from KG95 out of Sioux City, IA, circa 1984.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jim Don Bob

    LRC,

    Where did daughter LRC wind up going to school (generally) if you don’t mind me asking?

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Jim Don Bob

    Well, let's just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there -- and, more importantly, she's loved it.

    The best choice we Calvinists made in this area was deciding, after her high school junior year equivalent here, to just give up on the US university admissions nightmare, and concentrate on the UK. University admissions in the UK, although not free from wokeness, are still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.

    Let's hope that the return to requiring standardized test scores at some elite US universities is a sign the pendulum is swinging back towards sanity.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Twinkie, @nebulafox

  216. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    @res

    My 70/30 comment was a dig at the BBC's view that the driver of house purchases was males needing to own a house to attract a bride from the limited pool of women - as 70% of millennials now own houses, you'd need a very very skewed sex ratio for all the purchasers to be male.

    On affordability, I see three possibilities

    a) HSBC (who provided the figures) are lying

    b) Seeking Alpha are lying

    c) all of them are lying

    Just consider. I keep reading that the savings rates in China are YUGE ("because there's nothing to spend it on!") .

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/022415/top-10-countries-save-most.asp

    "According to latest World Bank figures, China's gross domestic savings rate was 47% in 2022"

    Now that's a huge number - we're in Stalin's Soviet Union during industrialisation territory. Yet this nation of mega-savers are also apparently owning and buying houses. Something in China must be very cheap if your average Wang is saving half his salary. In the UK, for example, it would be literally impossible for the average Brit to do that, as rent/mortgage/water/energy/food probably accounts for 70%-plus of wages before ever they pay a broadband bill.

    Does not compute - you agree?

    Replies: @res

    This 2018 IMF working paper has a great deal about Chinese savings.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330086299_China’s_High_Savings_Drivers_Prospects_and_Policies

    Far too much there for me to summarize in detail, but some salient points.

    Demographic changes affect household savings behaviors through both expenditures on children and expected inter-generational support. On the expenditure side, having fewer children requires less spending, especially as regards education, which contributes to an increase in savings. On the income/transfer side, having fewer children leads to a decline in old-age support, which is the elderly’s main livelihood in China.6 This phenomenon creates greater incentive to save more for retirement (Imrohoroglu and Zhao, 2017). Indeed, microdata show the strong impact of the number of children on household savings. Using Urban Household Survey data, Choukhmane et al. (2014) find that households with twins tend to save about 10 percentage points less than households with one child, and this pattern holds across income levels.

    Quantitatively, demographic shifts alone account for half of the rise in household savings, suggesting that it has been the most important driver. We analyze the impact of demographics based on the overlapping generations model developed by Curtis et al. (2015), which captures both the expenditure and the transfer channel by including children’s consumption in parents’ utility function, and old-age support as a constant share of children’s wages.7 Model simulations show that demographics alone can explain about half of the increase in the household savings rate, holding income growth and interest rates constant.

    Income inequality translates into savings inequality. Household-level microdata suggest that savings behavior differs substantially across income deciles. Based on Chinese Household Income Project (CHIP) data, the difference between the savings rates of the richest and poorest deciles is often as large as 20 percentage points, reflecting the different propensities to consume out of income. For example, in 2013, the top earners saved close to 50 percent of their incomes, while households in the bottom 10 percent saved about 20 percent.

    Housing ownership could affect savings behavior through various channels. These include the down payment effect, mortgage effect, and wealth effect. The down payment channel implies that a tenant would save more if she decided to buy a house, and rising housing prices would make that incentive even stronger. The mortgage channel suggests that homeowners would need to save more to pay mortgages. The wealth effect implies that, with rising housing prices, homeowners would also increase consumption and reduce saving as they would feel wealthier. The overall impact of housing ownership on savings, interacted with rapidly rising housing prices, will depend on the relative strength of these offsetting channels.

    Much more there.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
  217. res says:
    @AnotherDad
    @res

    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.

    Also, not sure why you're using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?

    It's self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.

    30-35: 4.3 -- 3.9
    25-30: 3.3 -- 2.9
    20-25: 3.0 -- 2.6

    but it's even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts--below 35 at least--are smaller. A 33 year old Chinese dude settled into a career and trying to court say a 28 year old woman is looking at a cohort gap (4.3 -- 2.9) of over a quarter. Imagine how entitled the girls get with that? Youch!

    The one positive: this should be eugenic. The downside: lots of single men around is not a recipe for social peace.

    The Chinese are boneheads. While frontline--"we've got to reduce our population growth!"--understandable, the math here was very very basic, and the social effects very predictable. The correction should have come at least a couple decades earlier in the 90s--2 children with eugenic "high quality" exemptions for more.

    Then again the Chinese stupidity pales beside the "must have immigration!" inanity of West, much less the full on Maoist level "screw Americans!" open border of the "Biden Administration".

    Replies: @SFG, @YetAnotherAnon, @res

    res, you and YAA are both trotting out stories that are several years old. The Chinese real estate bubble has popped.

    Do you have data for that? The price to income ratio differences with the rest of the world were extreme (here 1996-2020).
    https://lipperalpha.refinitiv.com/2020/06/chart-of-the-week-chinas-house-price-to-income-ratio-exceeds-17/

    And recent numbers for Beijing and Shanghai don’t look all that popped to me.
    https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/compare_cities.jsp?country1=China&city1=Beijing&country2=China&city2=Shanghai

    Also, not sure why you’re using the whole population and trotting out 2.2% sex gap?

    The original comment mentioned a 30 million excess of males. That was a way of calculating a comparable number for confirmation.

    It’s self-evident from your pop-pyramid that the sex gap is running around 10% in the relevant family formation years.

    That is another way of looking at it. Both approaches have their strengths. Yours is better for assessing the severity of the musical chairs aspect of this issue. The absolute male excess is better for making observations like how this affects the ability of China to field a large army without impacting their reproduction.

    but it’s even worse than that because men marry younger women and the younger cohorts–below 35 at least–are smaller.

    That effect tends to even out over time, but you are right to highlight the severity of it in the critical 20-34 age range.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
  218. @nglaer
    In what category does new wave (Blondie, Talking Heads, The Clash) fit?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer

    Classic Rock and/or Classic Alternative.

  219. Read a novel once by a famed and lauded author, and in the novel it was suggested you had to listen a lot to twelve-tone technique in musical composition, for it to reveal its ‘magic’.
    Well, Arnold Schoenberg and his music is shit, but I tried using the advice from the book, and listened to a classical music channel for a day while going about my business. I’m unhappy to report that classical music is still crap also.

    I listen to techno and electronica, and world music, which is practically the same thing. Everything done by a computer is OK with my cohort. Gen X for the win.

  220. @ScarletNumber

    Donald Trump told Ali G, the most popular thing in the world is music
     
    According to Penn Jillette, he never saw Trump show any enjoyment or understanding of music. Of course, that doesn't mean that he doesn't, but Penn and Trump did spend a lot of time together when Penn did two tours of duty on The Apprentice.

    Los Angeles has a lot of fine college stations
     
    Here in North Jersey, Fordham, Seton Hall, and Upsala had well-regarded student-run stations, but there were so many popular commercial stations that they never really reached mainstream popularity. Seton Hall (WSOU-FM) has the ability to brand itself Pirate Radio because of its athletics mascot, but the station is fully licensed by the FCC. Ironically its most famous alumnus is Bob Ley the long-time ESPN journalist and anchor. Fordham (WFUV-FM) has too many famous alumni to list.

    https://youtu.be/A-UK40_XkWw&t=432

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @nebulafox, @Ministry Of Tongues

    Here in North Jersey, Fordham, Seton Hall, and Upsala had well-regarded student-run stations

    The story of Upsala College is a Steve topic in itself. I’m surprised it isn’t better known.

    But WFMU escaped from the disaster and became independent. It’s the most anti-commercial music station I know.

  221. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    If you think when you hear this, that you are just hearing some groovy 70s white chick having a bop on the piano, then we aren't really hearing the same thing....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6913KnbMpHM


    Same way, if you hear this and don't realize how terrifying it is, or why, then, same deal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLtn0V4u15o


    Like the Jerky Boys used to say, I'll bring all my glasses. And all my shoes. So I have dem.

    DAN AYCKROYD, 1970s: You look at the floor, and all you see is the floor. I look at the floor, and what I see is MOLECULES.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It’s funny, but I was just thinking the other day how well “Mud Slide Slim” stands up now compared with “Tapestry”, when at the time of release they were rated pretty much alongside each other.

    Carole King does however seem like a very nice woman. Plays piano on this.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I'll take your word for it, seems like you know better than me (I'm more of a Captain Beefheart guy anyway).

    But you kind of have to hand it to them, what a nice setup, early/mid 70s music pros really had it made: if you're Carole King or James Taylor or the guys from America, you already wrote a bunch of hits at a young age and so you're set for life (well, James Taylor had kind of a rough patch early on, but once he got his act together...), you're chilling around in Laurel Canyon, just about the most pleasant place to be in those days, in the midst of the sticks and yet in the heart of a great city, you've got your country pad but you're just minutes away from the Sunset Strip, you can go catch Frank and the Mothers down at the Whiskey and be home in time for dinner, maybe split a spliff with Neil or do a toot of china white with Grace, then settle back down to your baby grand and write another head-spinner for seven figures. What a life.

    The rest of us got crash-landed into some broke-ass psychotic Kathy Acker nightmare on Ludlow, chewing the tips of our fingers off to keep warm. Man, who's the fucking dealer in this casino anyway?

    , @res
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I think this adds to the comparison.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_Slide_Slim_and_the_Blue_Horizon


    the album contains Taylor's biggest hit single in the US, a cover version of the Carole King standard "You've Got a Friend", which hit #1 on the Billboard charts on July 31, 1971, his only song to do so. The week before, the album itself reached its peak position of #2 in the Billboard album charts. It was held off the top spot by King, then ruling the charts with the blockbuster Tapestry album, which contained her version of "You've Got a Friend". The song earned Grammy Awards both for Taylor (Best Pop Vocal Performance, Male) and King (Song of the Year).
     
  222. @Mike Tre
    @Almost Missouri

    "It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn’t she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman."

    Yes, but her pregnancies were a cynical strategy to elicit sympathy from the judge/jury, and knowing what we know about her (megalomaniac?) she might not have any real emotional connection to those kids, or care about them at all.

    This person deserves no sympathy for her choices.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Yes, but her pregnancies were a cynical strategy to elicit sympathy from the judge/jury, and knowing what we know about her (megalomaniac?) she might not have any real emotional connection to those kids, or care about them at all.

    This person deserves no sympathy for her choices.

    Yeah, she got pregnant in a hurry, didn’t she? Right before the prospect of a lengthy incarceration.

  223. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    due to the turmoil in her life
     
    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn't she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.

    Her looks have suffered
     
    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she'll always be technically insolvent.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b90768ef617db69be45eb8ab6e0f4f7a7e1166aa/0_82_3511_2108/master/3511.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Gallatin, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point.

    I was being sarcastic. She is the greatest tech “adventuress” of all time. The value that she destroyed boggles one’s mind.

  224. @AnotherDad
    @res


    The challenge here is how to reconcile these two points.
    1. Housing in the US has become unaffordable for new families.
    2. Many more people (the relative numbers matter! this involves political decisions) have seen huge paper gains for their housing. And for some of those people it is not just paper. They paid cold hard cash (and/or made binding loan commitments) at those prices.
     
    The first is way, way, way more important than the later. The first is existential. The 2nd is just a debt issue.

    As it is we are inevitably going to have more or less intractable inflation--hopefully moderate, but definitely above the Fed's 2% target. (There simply isn't a credible--in our current political environment--way around more money printing.) And inflation actually helps existing debtors.

    A--fantasy--immigration stop, would be followed by generally moderating house prices while incomes riding inflation catch back up. So the losses to existing home owners wouldn't be a big deal--they benefit by paying their loans with cheaper dollars. The punishment goes to lenders who made long low interest mortgage loans--but those people are already in trouble.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The 2nd is just a debt issue.

    A–fantasy

    Indeed.

  225. Curle says:

    In my city it seems there’s been an upheaval in radio formats. One classic rock station went country, though it is what I’d call Young Country. Now there are two Young Country stations. One old time classic pop and rock station now plays mostly ‘80s and the list of songs is down to a handful or so it seems. I hear Michael Jackson now twice per half hour and I’m not a big fan. I’ve been changing the dial more and more.

  226. @Ripple Earthdevil
    @DenverGregg

    Wasn't Debby Boone an overtly Christian artist and the "You" Jesus Christ himself? Where's the nihilism?

    Replies: @DenverGregg

    “it can’t be wrong when it feels so right” is straight-up nihilism

  227. @FPD72
    @Sparkon

    Thanks for the songs and the memories they evoke. Some comments:

    The Association is the only group featured that I ever saw perform live. It was one of the better concerts I’ve attended.

    Marilyn McCool of the Fifth Dimension was a good a female vocalist as I’ve ever heard.

    I don’t know anything about the songwriter, Chet Powers, other than he had a drug problem and he played with Quicksilver Messenger Service, but Get Together is filled with Christian imagery, beyond just Christ’s command to his followers to “love one another.” Consider this stanza:
    “ Some may come and some may go
    He will surely pass
    When the one that left us here
    Returns for us at last
    We are but a moment's sunlight
    Fading in the grass.”
    Christian eschatology combined with the brevity of life from the perspective of eternity. I wish I knew more about the late Mr. Powers.

    Replies: @Sparkon, @Ripple Earthdevil

    Yes, thanks. Powers was an interesting guy and you can find his solo versions of “Get Together” online.

    There were a number of hit tunes from the late ’60s into and through the ’70s that had veiled or overt Christian themes for anyone actually paying much attention to the lyrics, and these hits generally coincided with the Born Again & Jesus Freak movements of that time.

    Just off the top of my head, Pacific Gas & Electric’s scorching hit “Are You Ready?” (1970), Tommy James and the Shondells’ mystical “Crystal Blue Persuasion” (1969), Eric Burdon’s operatic “Sky Pilot” (1968), and Norman Greenbaum’s foot-tapper “Spirit In the Sky” (’69-’70) fall into that realm, along with “Get Together,” but hold onto your hat for PG&L’s classic:

    Get Ready
    Pacific Gas & Electric
    1970

    I don’t know, but it’s possible “Turn Turn Turn” was the first hit of the Rock Era with lyrics drawn directly from the Bible, but already by that time, some popular music already carried a social or political message, going back to another of Pete Seger’s gems “If I Had A Hammer” from 1948, resurrected by PP&M and Trini Lopez in 1963 as part of the Folk Music revival of the mid ’50s led by recording artists and live performers like The Kingston Trio, and carried on to some extent by the Smothers Brothers on TV up until the time they were canned by CBS in 1969.

    As for antiwar songs from the ’60s, I’ll just mention Pete Seger’s “Where Have All the Flowers Gone?” popularized by the Kingston Trio (1961) and again by Johnny Rivers (1965), “Eve Of Destruction” by Barry McGuire (1965), “Give Peace A Chance” by John Lennon & Yoko Ono (1969), “Fortunate Son” by John Fogerty (1969), and “War” by Edwin Starr (1969). There were others, and a few pro-war tunes as well.

    I think Brian Hyland’s “I’m Afraid To Go Home” was the first really melodic popular tune I can remember that sort of put a chill into my bones, and a fear of war into my mind and soul.

    I’m Afraid To Go Home
    Brian Hyland
    (1963?)

    Contrast that emotion-stirring ballad about the Civil War with Brian Hyland’s big worldwide #1 hit from June 1960 – “Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini.”.

    And so with a little effort I’ve managed to bring us full circle back to the beginning of the Sixties to answer the ultimate question:

    Were we having fun yet?

    We were, but unfortunately, it wouldn’t last.

  228. @Old Virginia
    @Captain Tripps

    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.

    Therefore "Songbird" is the best song on Rumours, "You Make Loving Fun" a not-too-distant second.

    (B-Side "Silver Spring" by Christine McVie's friend, Stevie Nicks, should have been a contender... a gorgeous record.)

    Replies: @Curle, @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps

    I’m a big fan of FM’s album Bare Trees which was Welch, Kirwan and McVie (Christine) era FM songwriting. I like all of the eras but this may be my favorite and Christine helps make it so.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Curle

    I was living in the Caribbean for many years during which time Fleetwood Mac was very popular on the radio.

    It was only decades later that I discovered that Christine McVie was the same person as Christine Perfect, a blues singer whom I had seen performing in England around 1970. I had no idea.

    , @Old Virginia
    @Curle

    Bare Trees is a one of my favorites too. They should've had hits with Welch.

    I always liked everything by the band but a few years back I realized Christine is why I kept going back. The hits by Buckingham and Nicks possibly drove the money making but I've never cared what they were singing about, just the sounds they made. McVie is the heart and soul.

    The rhythm section is pretty good too.

  229. @DenverGregg
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jazz is an incredibly broad category. I'm partial to Oscar Peterson, Cal Tjader, Dave Brubeck, Tito Puente, Ellington, Basie, James Booker. No desire to ever hear more Kenny G again though.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Yes I like all of these. I have listened to five of the seven artists you mentioned within the last month.

  230. @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    People generally like Sinatra, Christmas music, etc.: stuff that swings and isn't too abstract (vocals a plus.) They don't as much tend to like modern jazz. I do, but I understand why people are alienated: "anxiety of influence" and disconnect from dancing has resulted in a lot of contemporary jazz having an unpleasantly tense/sterile vibe.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    I agree with what you say, and in fact I don’t often listen to Jazz recorded after 1970, unless it is by retro artists like Bireli Lagrene or Wynton Marsalis.

  231. @Curle
    @Old Virginia

    I’m a big fan of FM’s album Bare Trees which was Welch, Kirwan and McVie (Christine) era FM songwriting. I like all of the eras but this may be my favorite and Christine helps make it so.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Old Virginia

    I was living in the Caribbean for many years during which time Fleetwood Mac was very popular on the radio.

    It was only decades later that I discovered that Christine McVie was the same person as Christine Perfect, a blues singer whom I had seen performing in England around 1970. I had no idea.

    • Thanks: Curle
  232. @Jim Don Bob
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    LRC,

    Where did daughter LRC wind up going to school (generally) if you don't mind me asking?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Well, let’s just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there — and, more importantly, she’s loved it.

    The best choice we Calvinists made in this area was deciding, after her high school junior year equivalent here, to just give up on the US university admissions nightmare, and concentrate on the UK. University admissions in the UK, although not free from wokeness, are still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.

    Let’s hope that the return to requiring standardized test scores at some elite US universities is a sign the pendulum is swinging back towards sanity.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Excellent! Glad everything worked out.

    Thanks for the reply.

    , @Twinkie
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    Well, let’s just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there — and, more importantly, she’s loved it.
     
    Hey, congratulations! If you are in the true Anglosphere (not Americanosphere), that's definitely the way to go.

    still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.
     
    It's not all that in the USA though. Hillsdale, for example, has been rising in the rankings (top 50 now) and is a true liberal arts school in the old sense. At some point pretty soon, I think it's going to be the conservative alternatives to the Ivies.

    And about this upthread:

    there is an awful lot of 80s music out there
     
    YES. And it's not just the developed places either. I was in this tiny Indonesian village once - they played Michael Jackson for me.

    Replies: @res, @The Last Real Calvinist

    , @nebulafox
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    From everything you've said about her over the years, you must be very proud. Congrats! Hope she keeps kicking ass.

  233. @Brutusale
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yeah, Lou Fucking Reed...he'd have been better off letting the colored girl doot-t-doot for an hour instead of dropping this turd.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB1cEyy0fKs

    Replies: @cthulhu

    Heh…Metal Machine Music, despite all of the revisionist history about it, was really Lou’s fuck-you to his record company at the time, RCA. It was deliberately unlistenable to any but the most devoted musique-concrète masochist, and as such was designed to get Reed out of his contract with RCA. He did eventually end up on Arista, and put out some forgettable discs there, then came back to RCA in the early ‘80s and amazingly enough made several fantastic albums – The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, New Sensations, and New York, to name some. He also talked punk guitar god Robert Quine out of leaving the band and cut a live record after Legendary Hearts was released, and Live in Italy is a gem of an album.

    But MMM…Lou being an asshole, which he apparently did quite often.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @cthulhu


    ...was really Lou’s 🖕 to his record company at the time, RCA.
     
    As was Prince's glyph, and the Boss's four-year vacation after Born to Run. Monty Python did this:


    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/519-yGoPGML._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg


    Oh, and there was this:


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/%22Mercury_Poisoning%22_-_Graham_Parker_and_the_Rumour.jpg

  234. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Jim Don Bob

    Well, let's just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there -- and, more importantly, she's loved it.

    The best choice we Calvinists made in this area was deciding, after her high school junior year equivalent here, to just give up on the US university admissions nightmare, and concentrate on the UK. University admissions in the UK, although not free from wokeness, are still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.

    Let's hope that the return to requiring standardized test scores at some elite US universities is a sign the pendulum is swinging back towards sanity.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    Excellent! Glad everything worked out.

    Thanks for the reply.

  235. @Curle
    @Old Virginia

    I’m a big fan of FM’s album Bare Trees which was Welch, Kirwan and McVie (Christine) era FM songwriting. I like all of the eras but this may be my favorite and Christine helps make it so.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Old Virginia

    Bare Trees is a one of my favorites too. They should’ve had hits with Welch.

    I always liked everything by the band but a few years back I realized Christine is why I kept going back. The hits by Buckingham and Nicks possibly drove the money making but I’ve never cared what they were singing about, just the sounds they made. McVie is the heart and soul.

    The rhythm section is pretty good too.

    • Agree: Curle
  236. @Jay Fink
    @R.G. Camara

    Rollins was ahead of his time. Hyper masculine, over muscular, aggressive men were rare before he hit the scene. Now they are a dime a dozen. We are all worse off for it so I would say he had a negative influence on a society.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Rollins was precisely like every other punk/heavy metal guy in terms of personality — aggressively male— except he was a lifting freak (most musicians aren’t into heavy lifting/body building) and able to get himself onto mainstream platforms like Leno and Bill Maher and rant politics.

    Also, his face looking like a 1960s beach boy/guy next door was deceptive and probably made him more able to reach milktoast folks. Most metal/punk guys go out of their way with wild hairdos and face piercings, but Rollins kept everything above the collar looking normal. Below the nect he was tatted up and jacked, but a decent shirt covered up most of it for mainstream shows.

    Finally, while a lot of musicians make vague lefty statements, Rollins is a psycho true believer. He wanted to bully an opponent into submission or (seemingly) physically get into it. His persona was very similar to Sean Penn’s now–all macho aggression posturing, lefty talking points, and insane anger when contradicted.

  237. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Jim Don Bob

    Well, let's just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there -- and, more importantly, she's loved it.

    The best choice we Calvinists made in this area was deciding, after her high school junior year equivalent here, to just give up on the US university admissions nightmare, and concentrate on the UK. University admissions in the UK, although not free from wokeness, are still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.

    Let's hope that the return to requiring standardized test scores at some elite US universities is a sign the pendulum is swinging back towards sanity.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    Well, let’s just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there — and, more importantly, she’s loved it.

    Hey, congratulations! If you are in the true Anglosphere (not Americanosphere), that’s definitely the way to go.

    still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.

    It’s not all that in the USA though. Hillsdale, for example, has been rising in the rankings (top 50 now) and is a true liberal arts school in the old sense. At some point pretty soon, I think it’s going to be the conservative alternatives to the Ivies.

    And about this upthread:

    there is an awful lot of 80s music out there

    YES. And it’s not just the developed places either. I was in this tiny Indonesian village once – they played Michael Jackson for me.

    • Replies: @res
    @Twinkie


    Hillsdale, for example, has been rising in the rankings (top 50 now) and is a true liberal arts school in the old sense. At some point pretty soon, I think it’s going to be the conservative alternatives to the Ivies.
     
    Worth looking into their online courses
    https://online.hillsdale.edu/course-list
    and newsletter
    https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/
    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Twinkie

    Hillsdale is a good option -- we actually made an official visit there. The college seemed great, but the town of Hillsdale itself was just too isolated and run-down for Daughter C to imagine herself there. It's also a very long way from Hong Kong, both practically and metaphorically.

  238. @Brutusale
    @R.G. Camara

    Henry stands all of 5'8"-5'9". Little man syndrome.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    I don’t see little man (5’7-5’9 is average male height) as much as politics ginning him up. His obsession with lifting seems politically based. Basically, I could see Rollins leading a riot for Antifa.

  239. @obwandiyag
    @Reg Cæsar

    Huh? Harrisburg isn't in Route 66.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Huh? Harrisburg isn’t in Route 66.

    Bobby Troup, who wrote it, hailed from Harrisburg.

    (“In” Route 66?)

  240. @Old Virginia
    @Captain Tripps

    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.

    Therefore "Songbird" is the best song on Rumours, "You Make Loving Fun" a not-too-distant second.

    (B-Side "Silver Spring" by Christine McVie's friend, Stevie Nicks, should have been a contender... a gorgeous record.)

    Replies: @Curle, @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps

    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.

    All these years I assumed if it wasn’t Stevie’s voice, it must be Christine’s. I had no idea that half the time it wasn’t Christine, it was Lindsey. That’s the difference between listening and just hearing. I think my mother-in-law listened to Rumours a lot while her daughter was gestating. There’s no other way to explain the latter’s attraction to it.

    If you’re wondering who sang what, and when, it’s all here:

    https://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-lead-vocals-songs/

    (And yes, “Black Magic Woman” was theirs before Santana’s.)

    • Replies: @Old Virginia
    @Reg Cæsar

    Indeed, the sound of Buckingham is laced throughout the hit making era of Fleetwood Mac. If they weren't his lead vocals, his background vocals were layered in. He provided a lot of cool guitar stabs and fills and additional kitchen sink production, too. Tusk may have carried it too far. For my tastes, especially live, it becomes annoying.

    I used to go to the eponymous album, previous to Rumours, to hear "I'm So Afraid" but found myself playing "Warm Ways" on repeat. It seems like McVie and Buckingham collaborated frequently too, like "World Turning" and "Don't Stop".

    They weren't really a favorite growing up but it's all great stuff, great records.

  241. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    due to the turmoil in her life
     
    It might be more the lack of turmoil at this point. Didn't she have a kid or two before going into pokey? Being separated for years from your young children would be torment for any woman.

    Her looks have suffered
     
    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she'll always be technically insolvent.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b90768ef617db69be45eb8ab6e0f4f7a7e1166aa/0_82_3511_2108/master/3511.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Gallatin, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she’ll always be technically insolvent.

    She can always do what OJ did and move to Florida, to enjoy a huge “homestead” exemption from judgments. You don’t think he was there for the sun, do you?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Reg Cæsar


    do what OJ did and move to Florida, to enjoy a huge “homestead” exemption
     
    True, I suppose, but that assumes she has some assets to exempt. OJ avoided jail and though materially diminished still had something to live on. I'm not sure that the same applies to Holmes.

    She is married to—or at least "partnered" with—some wealthy heir, so maybe he's got her covered, and concerns about her solvency are misplaced. One wonders what's in it for the heir. She brings nothing good to the table, only public infamy and the private legacy of a decade and a half as Balwani's groomed b*tch. But maybe he's got it figured out with George Costanza logic.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  242. @Reg Cæsar
    @Almost Missouri


    She is 40. She also has a $452 million charge on her head, which she will obviously never pay. So she’ll always be technically insolvent.
     
    She can always do what OJ did and move to Florida, to enjoy a huge "homestead" exemption from judgments. You don't think he was there for the sun, do you?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    do what OJ did and move to Florida, to enjoy a huge “homestead” exemption

    True, I suppose, but that assumes she has some assets to exempt. OJ avoided jail and though materially diminished still had something to live on. I’m not sure that the same applies to Holmes.

    She is married to—or at least “partnered” with—some wealthy heir, so maybe he’s got her covered, and concerns about her solvency are misplaced. One wonders what’s in it for the heir. She brings nothing good to the table, only public infamy and the private legacy of a decade and a half as Balwani’s groomed b*tch. But maybe he’s got it figured out with George Costanza logic.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Almost Missouri


    One wonders what’s in it for the heir. She brings nothing good to the table...
     
    Huh? Do you realize what site you are on?

    IQ points for the kids!

  243. @YetAnotherAnon
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's funny, but I was just thinking the other day how well "Mud Slide Slim" stands up now compared with "Tapestry", when at the time of release they were rated pretty much alongside each other.

    Carole King does however seem like a very nice woman. Plays piano on this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvUgsdfLkbU

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @res

    I’ll take your word for it, seems like you know better than me (I’m more of a Captain Beefheart guy anyway).

    But you kind of have to hand it to them, what a nice setup, early/mid 70s music pros really had it made: if you’re Carole King or James Taylor or the guys from America, you already wrote a bunch of hits at a young age and so you’re set for life (well, James Taylor had kind of a rough patch early on, but once he got his act together…), you’re chilling around in Laurel Canyon, just about the most pleasant place to be in those days, in the midst of the sticks and yet in the heart of a great city, you’ve got your country pad but you’re just minutes away from the Sunset Strip, you can go catch Frank and the Mothers down at the Whiskey and be home in time for dinner, maybe split a spliff with Neil or do a toot of china white with Grace, then settle back down to your baby grand and write another head-spinner for seven figures. What a life.

    The rest of us got crash-landed into some broke-ass psychotic Kathy Acker nightmare on Ludlow, chewing the tips of our fingers off to keep warm. Man, who’s the fucking dealer in this casino anyway?

  244. @Old Virginia
    @Captain Tripps

    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.

    Therefore "Songbird" is the best song on Rumours, "You Make Loving Fun" a not-too-distant second.

    (B-Side "Silver Spring" by Christine McVie's friend, Stevie Nicks, should have been a contender... a gorgeous record.)

    Replies: @Curle, @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps

    Agree. CM had (has?) as great a singing voice as Stevie Nicks; SN had better looks, so the marketing zeitgeist favored/pushed her. To me, at certain points. SN’s voice can sound too harsh at the higher decibels. The great thing about a lot of the songs on Rumours is that it reflected the Peyton Place aspect of the band members’ interpersonal relationships.

    • Replies: @Old Virginia
    @Captain Tripps

    It's nice to have somebody agree with me. It's true about the Peyton Place element of Rumours.

    This may be a leap but don't you think another song that would fit perfectly on Rumours, both thematically and sonically is "Knowing Me, Knowing You" - by ABBA? Same as Rumours, a dramatic song about breaking up among band members. I think it sounds like FM, probably intentionally. Great singing, great production, just add a Lindsey Buckingham guitar lick and it would fit right in.

    (Sigh) I'll never be taken seriously again.

  245. @Almost Missouri
    @Reg Cæsar


    do what OJ did and move to Florida, to enjoy a huge “homestead” exemption
     
    True, I suppose, but that assumes she has some assets to exempt. OJ avoided jail and though materially diminished still had something to live on. I'm not sure that the same applies to Holmes.

    She is married to—or at least "partnered" with—some wealthy heir, so maybe he's got her covered, and concerns about her solvency are misplaced. One wonders what's in it for the heir. She brings nothing good to the table, only public infamy and the private legacy of a decade and a half as Balwani's groomed b*tch. But maybe he's got it figured out with George Costanza logic.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    One wonders what’s in it for the heir. She brings nothing good to the table…

    Huh? Do you realize what site you are on?

    IQ points for the kids!

  246. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's funny, but I was just thinking the other day how well "Mud Slide Slim" stands up now compared with "Tapestry", when at the time of release they were rated pretty much alongside each other.

    Carole King does however seem like a very nice woman. Plays piano on this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvUgsdfLkbU

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @res

    I think this adds to the comparison.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_Slide_Slim_and_the_Blue_Horizon

    the album contains Taylor’s biggest hit single in the US, a cover version of the Carole King standard “You’ve Got a Friend”, which hit #1 on the Billboard charts on July 31, 1971, his only song to do so. The week before, the album itself reached its peak position of #2 in the Billboard album charts. It was held off the top spot by King, then ruling the charts with the blockbuster Tapestry album, which contained her version of “You’ve Got a Friend”. The song earned Grammy Awards both for Taylor (Best Pop Vocal Performance, Male) and King (Song of the Year).

  247. res says:
    @Twinkie
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    Well, let’s just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there — and, more importantly, she’s loved it.
     
    Hey, congratulations! If you are in the true Anglosphere (not Americanosphere), that's definitely the way to go.

    still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.
     
    It's not all that in the USA though. Hillsdale, for example, has been rising in the rankings (top 50 now) and is a true liberal arts school in the old sense. At some point pretty soon, I think it's going to be the conservative alternatives to the Ivies.

    And about this upthread:

    there is an awful lot of 80s music out there
     
    YES. And it's not just the developed places either. I was in this tiny Indonesian village once - they played Michael Jackson for me.

    Replies: @res, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Hillsdale, for example, has been rising in the rankings (top 50 now) and is a true liberal arts school in the old sense. At some point pretty soon, I think it’s going to be the conservative alternatives to the Ivies.

    Worth looking into their online courses
    https://online.hillsdale.edu/course-list
    and newsletter
    https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/

  248. @DenverGregg
    @Jonathan Mason

    i second this endorsement, though i eschew alexa and all its pomps and works. i've downloaded thousands of songs to my phone. better, the algorithm has introduced me to many performers i enjoy very much and i doubt i ever would have heard of them otherwise. examples: Jools Holland, Messer Chups, Vaud and the Villains, The Bellfuries, The Wild Tchipitoulas, Anders Osborn, Motel Mirrors, Gal Holiday, The International Submarine Orchestra.

    my dad spent most of his waking hours in his retirement listening to recorded music. i'm in the 60+ demographic myself now and i listen for 6+ hours nearly every day, whether at work, driving, or just hanging out.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    i second this endorsement, though i eschew alexa and all its pomps and works.

    I only use Alexa because my current home music system consists of a pair of Alexa globe speakers paired together as a stereo system, which works quite well and puts out a lot of sound.

    When my cleaning girl comes she can use it to instruct Alexa in Spanish to play Cumbia music which she enjoys while she works, and I find quite enjoyable once a week, although I don’t know the names of artists, etc.

    The songs are evidently quite well-known, because when her 4-year-old daughter occasionally comes as an observer, she is able to sing along with the lyrics.

    The advantage of Alexa in conjunction with Amazon music is that if you have Alexa alone, the music that you can listen to is quite limited to what Alexa wants you to hear, but if you have the combo you can use Alexa to play complete named albums with the tracks in correct order or named single tracks of music without any limitations.

  249. @Reg Cæsar
    @Old Virginia


    To me, the more Christine McVie, the better.
     
    All these years I assumed if it wasn't Stevie's voice, it must be Christine's. I had no idea that half the time it wasn't Christine, it was Lindsey. That's the difference between listening and just hearing. I think my mother-in-law listened to Rumours a lot while her daughter was gestating. There's no other way to explain the latter's attraction to it.

    If you're wondering who sang what, and when, it's all here:


    https://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-lead-vocals-songs/


    (And yes, "Black Magic Woman" was theirs before Santana's.)

    Replies: @Old Virginia

    Indeed, the sound of Buckingham is laced throughout the hit making era of Fleetwood Mac. If they weren’t his lead vocals, his background vocals were layered in. He provided a lot of cool guitar stabs and fills and additional kitchen sink production, too. Tusk may have carried it too far. For my tastes, especially live, it becomes annoying.

    I used to go to the eponymous album, previous to Rumours, to hear “I’m So Afraid” but found myself playing “Warm Ways” on repeat. It seems like McVie and Buckingham collaborated frequently too, like “World Turning” and “Don’t Stop”.

    They weren’t really a favorite growing up but it’s all great stuff, great records.

    • Agree: Curle
  250. @cthulhu
    @Brutusale

    Heh…Metal Machine Music, despite all of the revisionist history about it, was really Lou’s fuck-you to his record company at the time, RCA. It was deliberately unlistenable to any but the most devoted musique-concrète masochist, and as such was designed to get Reed out of his contract with RCA. He did eventually end up on Arista, and put out some forgettable discs there, then came back to RCA in the early ‘80s and amazingly enough made several fantastic albums - The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, New Sensations, and New York, to name some. He also talked punk guitar god Robert Quine out of leaving the band and cut a live record after Legendary Hearts was released, and Live in Italy is a gem of an album.

    But MMM…Lou being an asshole, which he apparently did quite often.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    …was really Lou’s 🖕 to his record company at the time, RCA.

    As was Prince’s glyph, and the Boss’s four-year vacation after Born to Run. Monty Python did this:

    Oh, and there was this:

  251. Anonymous[815] • Disclaimer says:
    @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    “why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?” Hardly.

    Stop making stuff up:

    https://classicalmusicrising.org/about/press-room/facts-figures/

  252. Anonymous[815] • Disclaimer says:
    @Known Fact
    I heard a few years ago that Every Breath You Take is the most played song on radio, not sure if that was at the moment or a cumulative total of breaths.

    Thin Lizzy is not bad but I'd have to guess that the annoying The Boys Are Back in Town is number two. Doodle lee doo doo, doodle lee doo doo, doodle lee doodle lee doodle lee doodle lee doodle lee doo doo ...

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Thin Lizzie not in top 10…

    1. “Every Breath You Take” (The Police)
    2. “Brown Eyed Girl” (Van Morrison)
    3. “You’ve Lost that Lovin’ Feelin’” (The Righteous Brothers)
    4. “Yesterday” (The Beatles)
    5. “Never My Love” (The Association)
    6. “You Really Got Me” (The Kinks)
    7. “Stand by Me” (Ben E. King)
    8. “Layla” (Eric Clapton)
    9. “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” (Tears for Fears)
    10. “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You” (Frankie Valli)

    https://radiofidelity.com/the-12-most-played-songs/

  253. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Jim Don Bob

    Well, let's just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there -- and, more importantly, she's loved it.

    The best choice we Calvinists made in this area was deciding, after her high school junior year equivalent here, to just give up on the US university admissions nightmare, and concentrate on the UK. University admissions in the UK, although not free from wokeness, are still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.

    Let's hope that the return to requiring standardized test scores at some elite US universities is a sign the pendulum is swinging back towards sanity.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    From everything you’ve said about her over the years, you must be very proud. Congrats! Hope she keeps kicking ass.

  254. @Captain Tripps
    @Old Virginia

    Agree. CM had (has?) as great a singing voice as Stevie Nicks; SN had better looks, so the marketing zeitgeist favored/pushed her. To me, at certain points. SN's voice can sound too harsh at the higher decibels. The great thing about a lot of the songs on Rumours is that it reflected the Peyton Place aspect of the band members' interpersonal relationships.

    Replies: @Old Virginia

    It’s nice to have somebody agree with me. It’s true about the Peyton Place element of Rumours.

    This may be a leap but don’t you think another song that would fit perfectly on Rumours, both thematically and sonically is “Knowing Me, Knowing You” – by ABBA? Same as Rumours, a dramatic song about breaking up among band members. I think it sounds like FM, probably intentionally. Great singing, great production, just add a Lindsey Buckingham guitar lick and it would fit right in.

    (Sigh) I’ll never be taken seriously again.

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps
  255. @Twinkie
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    Well, let’s just say she ended up at a very well-known UK university, and she has excelled there — and, more importantly, she’s loved it.
     
    Hey, congratulations! If you are in the true Anglosphere (not Americanosphere), that's definitely the way to go.

    still far more meritocratic and reasonable than the absolute shitshow in the USA.
     
    It's not all that in the USA though. Hillsdale, for example, has been rising in the rankings (top 50 now) and is a true liberal arts school in the old sense. At some point pretty soon, I think it's going to be the conservative alternatives to the Ivies.

    And about this upthread:

    there is an awful lot of 80s music out there
     
    YES. And it's not just the developed places either. I was in this tiny Indonesian village once - they played Michael Jackson for me.

    Replies: @res, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Hillsdale is a good option — we actually made an official visit there. The college seemed great, but the town of Hillsdale itself was just too isolated and run-down for Daughter C to imagine herself there. It’s also a very long way from Hong Kong, both practically and metaphorically.

  256. Hillsdale, home of the Straussians.

    East Coast Straussians (who are really Chicago-based) have been politically well to the left of West Coast Straussians, whose citadels are Claremont and Hillsdale.

    Southern conservatives and Straussians have long been at loggerheads on historical and political questions, and it’s doubtful they can be reconciled. But both have been forces in the conservative movement since the 1950s, although obviously not with equal power and resources. While Southern conservatives were expelled from the movement, starting in the 1980s East and West Coast Straussians prospered under neoconservative dominance. Still Southern conservatives and Straussians have both been in the conservative movement since its beginnings.

    https://chroniclesmagazine.org/web/clearing-up-the-confusion-on-leo-strauss/

  257. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    If you think when you hear this, that you are just hearing some groovy 70s white chick having a bop on the piano, then we aren't really hearing the same thing....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6913KnbMpHM


    Same way, if you hear this and don't realize how terrifying it is, or why, then, same deal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLtn0V4u15o


    Like the Jerky Boys used to say, I'll bring all my glasses. And all my shoes. So I have dem.

    DAN AYCKROYD, 1970s: You look at the floor, and all you see is the floor. I look at the floor, and what I see is MOLECULES.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Well sorry but you can maybe forgive me for spluttering a teensy widdle bit WHEN I JUST HAD 25 ARMED NAZIS STORM INTO MY HOUSE AND SEARCH THE PLACE TOP TO BOTTOM OVER FUCKING NOTHING. Well. OK fine. Got that out of the way.

    Let’s get back to Carole King, shall we. What a career — had something like a dozen Top Twenty Billboard Hits before she was like 25, how many people can say that? And also partly by accident inspired the great avant-garde opera “Einstein on the Beach” and I bet she was so busy getting stoned in Laurel Canyon that she didn’t even know that happened.

    You have to forgive me for having a soft spot for Carole — c’mon, I grew up playing “Do the Locomotion” in bars. One of the things I love about her is that, somehow, her piano groove doesn’t require a backing drum kit — the percussion line is somehow also alive inside of her piano line. It reminds you of how basically, the piano is actually a percussion instrument. If you don’t believe me, just play “I Feel the Earth Move” and you’ll see what I mean.

    I feel the earth move.
    I feel the tumbling down tumbling down.
    There was a judge who like puts in a court.
    And the judge could have like what able way like how into this.
    And this could be like ways of judges and courts and jails.
    That could make you happy.
    That could make you mad. That could make you sad. Or that could make you jealous.
    So do you know a jail is. A judge and a court could.

    So this could be like into some ways into those green Christmas trees.
    So Santa Claus has about red.
    And now the Einstein trial is now the Einstein on the Beach.
    So this could be like what I saw in.
    Lucy or a kite. You raced all the way up. This is a race.
    So this could be where of eight of types into a pink rink.
    So here we go.

    I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the tumbling down I feel some ostriches are like into a satchel some like them.
    I feel the earth move.
    Carole King.

  258. @theMann
    If hip-hop generates so much dislike/hate, why is it so inescapably pernicious? Or is it just that it's fans are the assholes of the World and blast its broken one note Samba out to a world that does not want to listen to it?

    If Classical is so relatively popular, why are there basically zero Classical Stations outside of Universities?

    And as has been discussed, Classic Rock is a shifting target. I consider it as starting with "Hound Dog" and running to CCRs breakup. But I am old, so.... anyway, my opinion of the under 30 crowd is that they believe nothing existed before their pwecious wittle egos graced the World, so it is hard for me to see how popular any past music can be with them.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Replies: @Redneck Farmer, @Barnard, @bomag, @Anonymous, @tr, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Tom F.

    Did everybody just lie in this poll?

    Yes. This is what happened when people filled out ‘diaries’ for both television and radio. People would CLAIM to watch PBS and listen to NPR. But when manually filled out diaries were replaced with Arbitron electronic ratings (for instance, cars on the freeway at the 101 and 405 interchange can be measured to how many are listening to broadcast news, urban, pop, satellite SXM, etc.) both PBS and NPR disappeared from the ratings results.

    Nobody listens/watches. People want to support a ‘good cause’ but won’t actually listen/watch. Punchline: both PBS and NPR no longer pay to participate in the ratings systems.

  259. @FPD72
    @Sparkon

    Thanks for the songs and the memories they evoke. Some comments:

    The Association is the only group featured that I ever saw perform live. It was one of the better concerts I’ve attended.

    Marilyn McCool of the Fifth Dimension was a good a female vocalist as I’ve ever heard.

    I don’t know anything about the songwriter, Chet Powers, other than he had a drug problem and he played with Quicksilver Messenger Service, but Get Together is filled with Christian imagery, beyond just Christ’s command to his followers to “love one another.” Consider this stanza:
    “ Some may come and some may go
    He will surely pass
    When the one that left us here
    Returns for us at last
    We are but a moment's sunlight
    Fading in the grass.”
    Christian eschatology combined with the brevity of life from the perspective of eternity. I wish I knew more about the late Mr. Powers.

    Replies: @Sparkon, @Ripple Earthdevil

    I’m way late on this thread but it hasn’t been mentioned that Chester Powers was perhaps better known by his stage name Dino Valenti.

    Interesting interpretation, I always thought of it as a hippy-dippy anthem. I like the version on Jefferson Airplane’s first album co-sung by Signe Anderson, before Grace Slick joined the band.

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