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SlateStarCodex.com has a nice graph and discussion of typical California water usage, including the remarkable amount of water used to grow alfalfa (which is mostly fed to dairy cows).
But if you want to tie your brain into a knot, try figuring out the market for water. Most of the articles tell you something like All We Need to Do is
Sunnylands, Rancho Mirage, CA
– the cranky leftist view: have the benevolent dictator ban whatever the author doesn’t like (bottled water, golf, lawns, suburbs, etc.)
– the smug libertarian view: let the magic of the market do its job
But when you dig into California property rights regarding water, they turn out to be a mess for various reasons. Water seems extremely fungible, but in practice it’s not very.
The most obvious examples of the lack of a general water market in California are the 123 golf courses of Palm Springs in the low desert east of Los Angeles. The alfalfa / dairy business further out toward Indio may consume even more water, but alfalfa pastures don’t advertise as much as golf resorts. And yet there’s little in the way of thinking yet about grabbing Palm Springs’ water, whether for money or by force.
As I may have mentioned once or twice, I like golf courses. But even I have to admit that Palm Springs is a little much:
Desert Willow Golf Resort, Palm Desert, CA
This is a picture of a fairly new course that won lots of awards for not just being the Palm Springs usual 160 acres of watered turf. Instead, Desert Willow uses an immense number of “native” desert plants. It’s a great look, kind of an Arabian oasis fantasy, but it’s not happening without a lot of irrigation water.
The low desert doesn’t actually look like this except in a handful of geological anomaly spots where ground water is forced to the surface. The desert is mostly just bleak. If you drive up into the mountains in the background you’ll start seeing the kind of shrubs planted on this golf course at about 4000 feet elevation, where the average temperature is maybe 15 degrees F cooler.
Sunnylands, 1983
For a view of a more traditional Palms Springs / Coachella Valley golf course, here’s the late TV Guide owner Walter Annenberg’s personal nine hole course, Sunnylands, where Obama recently hosted the Chinese supremo. A lot of people like to get offended over golf courses, but you do have to admit that Annenberg’s personal course looks better than the surrounding wasteland of dirt and creosote bushes.
The Palm Springs area sits on top of an immense aquifer created when the glaciers on the 10,000’+ mountains to the west melted at the end of the last Ice Age. There are something like 123 golf courses in the Coachella Valley, and over half of them pump their own water out of the ground. They also get water at cost from the local water district, which also pumps water out of the ground, so they pay far less than coastal Californians. In 60 years of intensive golf development, Palm Springs has put a dent in underground water supply, but the usual estimates are that there’s enough underground water to keep them in business into the 2100s if not the 2200s.
From the LA Times:
While other parts of drought-stricken California pray for rain to keep toilets flushing and salvage crisping crops, water here has been cheap and plentiful, thanks to a massive underground aquifer that allows course owners to soak fairways with enough water to fill about 56,000 Olympic-sized pools each year. …
State law prohibits water agencies from charging more than it costs to produce water, which means prices stay low. The CVWD’s base rate is about $1.12 for 748 gallons of domestic water, compared with $5.06 for the same amount of water from LADWP.
Without a cost incentive to conserve, residents in the district, which supplies water to about two-thirds of the valley, are among the highest per-capita water users in the state. The approximately 202,000 residents used more than 330 gallons of water per person per day during the month of October — more than triple the amount LADWP residents used.
About a third of CVWD’s water goes to urban and domestic use, Engel said. Golf courses use 17%, she said.
Some golf course industry group claims California golf courses use less than 1% of California’s water. But golf is a big water user in Palm Springs, which is much hotter and, paradoxically, much more lavish with its water than the rest of the state.
During summers in the valley, temperatures regularly rise past 100 degrees, more than tripling evaporation rates and forcing heavier watering to keep courses playable. A single golf course in CVWD boundaries uses an average of about 300 million gallons of water annually — about three times the amount typically used at a coastal course in Southern California and more than double what inland courses consume, officials said.
And there is a huge amount of agriculture in the area, the Imperial Valley, such as growing alfalfa for dairy cows.
This raises the question: what if Mr. Annenberg, instead of watering his golf course, just pumped the water out of the ground and sold it to the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power for the 15 million people who live west of the Low Desert?
I haven’t been able to make sense of the property rights law involving ground water in California, but my impression is that that is frowned upon:
Ground Water Rights
In most areas of California, overlying land owners may extract percolating ground water and put it to beneficial use without approval from the State Board or a court. California does not have a permit process for regulation of ground water use. In several basins, however, groundwater use is subject to regulation in accordance with court decrees adjudicating the ground water rights within the basins.
The California Supreme Court decided in the 1903 case Katz v. Walkinshaw that the “reasonable use” provision that governs other types of water rights also applies to ground water. Prior to this time, the English system of unregulated ground water pumping had dominated but proved to be inappropriate to California’s semiarid climate. The Supreme Court case established the concept of overlying rights, in which the rights of others with land overlying the aquifer must be taken into account. Later court decisions established that ground water may be appropriated for use outside the basin, although appropriator’s rights are subordinate to those with overlying rights.
I don’t really know what that means, but I think there may be an “I drink your milkshake” problem that causes water law in California to discourage, to throw regulatory impediments in front of those kind of market transactions that economists see as as the solution to California’s water problems. I may have this completely wrong, but I suspect there tends to be default idea in water law in California that a landowner can use the ground water he pumps up to water his own land, and maybe he can sell water to his neighbors, but he has to jump through a lot of regulatory hoops before he can pipeline the water to another basin.
Why? One reason is because it’s often not real clear when you are pumping liquid out of the ground you own, whether water or oil (as in the case of Daniel Day-Lewis’s character in There Will Be Blood), whether you are just using liquid from under your own property or whether your drinking your neighbor’s milkshake, too. (Recall that a casus belli cited by Saddam for conquering Kuwait in 1990 was that their oil wells were drinking his milkshake by slant drilling.)
Ground water tends to be an ambiguously shared resource, so customary restrictions on how much of it you can use evolve.
In Palm Springs, those customary limitations are pretty lavish. If Walter Annenberg was allowed to pump as much ground water as he needed to lavishly water his 200 acre estate, well, that wouldn’t put much of a dent in the region’s water supply. If he sold water to his neighbors, that would still be a limited use. But if he built a giant aqueduct to the Greater Los Angeles area, well, that could seriously burn through the region’s water supply.
Once again, I may have this all wrong. But I think that when economists tell you All We Have to Do is let the magic of the market do its work, it often turns out that we don’t have much of a market because property owners are looking at each other highly suspiciously. Everybody is tempted to stab each other in the back, to pump up all the water they can from their semi-shared aquifer and sell it to the big city, so they evolve norms about what you can do with water that frequently make it hard to sell it to the highest bidder.
One market solution would have been for some really rich guy, like Annenberg 50 years ago, to buy up all the land on top of the Palm Springs aquifer so that there is no conflict over exactly whose water is being pumped out of the ground. Then he can build as many personal golf courses as he wants or sell it to the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power or whatever he finds is in his interest.
That’s nice and simple. But you can also see why a lot of people find economists’ constant calls for “reform” to be ominous. The economists seldom understand the local reasons why the current awkward system is in place, so one common outcome of modernization and rationalization is an oligopolization process in which we wind up with a tiny number of winner-take-all owners of resources. This is particularly likely to happen where property rights are inherently messy, as with poorly measured aquifers, which imposes friction costs on transactions while encouraging frantic drilling, which leads to waste.
John D. Rockefeller observed with distaste the chaos and waste of the Pennsylvania oil fields of the 19th Century with countless entrepreneurs trying to drink each other’s milkshakes and came up with a highly rational solution: the Standard Oil Company monopoly.
If Walter Annenberg or Howard Hughes or Bob Hope or Gene Autry or Daniel Plainview had actually bought up all the land in the Palm Springs area in 1955 instead of it getting divided up among hundreds of thousands of property-owners, then there would be a giant corporation that could rationally help California get through its current drought by redirecting water from its Palm Springs aquifer to the highest bidders nearer the coast.
But, on the other hand, maybe we don’t really want to live in that kind of society, even if it is more efficient …
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I live in one of the drier spots in England; we rely on groundwater. It’s pumped from an aquifer under another dry area, but one that’s less populous. Our driest year recently was 2011: 13.67 “. Our average is about 22”.
In spite of which, we get some vile, humid weather in July-August most years.
Welcome to the deep end of the public utilities and land rights pool. Water rights in the West is not for the faint of heart, or those who like to keep their sanity.
Land rights are the key, it is generally the major sticking point for trying to do anything ‘smart’ or creative with water. One of the reasons for this is that there are some old land rights that aren’t written very well. Lots of the land/water rights go all the way back to the King of Spain, and then there is the historic Indian water rights (which are ‘new’), and oh goodness ‘environmental’ water rights, which are very new but the .gov has declared them to be the ‘oldest’ (snail darters etc), so the amount of confusion and who gets ‘priority’ gets pretty continuous. Then you have state laws that try to deal with this and then lots of states treat groundwater and surface water differently. It’s overwhelming.
Just as an example: The Office of the State Engineer in New Mexico, who is in charge of all water and engineering related activities in the state has more lawyers working for the office than engineers (140 vs 15-20).
I even know a engineer who was fired from public service by a Western Governor (very abruptly I might add) because to he tried to do the right thing for water users, and along the way upset some large political donors, so it’s serious business.
Here are the fundamentals of dealing with water in the west: (I can’t remember who’s quotes these are, I take no credit for them)
Water gets you wet.
Water runs downhill except where it runs uphill towards money.
When it does rain, you get more than you planned.
Droughts are always broken by floods.
Whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting.
Believe it or not, in the UK some of the remaining feudal lords actually claim ownership of rivers.
That fact always reminds me of a classic little cartoon I first circa 1973, featuring that leftist Antipodean reluctant settler in Britain – Murray Ball’s incomparable ‘Bruce the Barbarian’. In the cartoon, Bruce is seen happily minding his own business washing in a river – you see Bruce is a fictious dark ages Antipodean invader from New Zealand – yes I know it’s nonsense – squatting in a Romano-Britain run by one Emperor ‘Tedius Heath’ – now you can say why I’m fixated.
Anyhow, Bruce is happily wallowing in the river, when along comes an archetypal English toff character. ‘I say, my man, get out of that damned river at once! What the Hell do you think you are doing in my property?’
‘But, surely, you can’t own a river?’
‘Yes’ I damn well can under the laws of this country, now GET OUT!’
So, in the next frame, a naked Bruce climbs out and stands by the river bank.
‘OK ,chief’ says Bruce to the landowner, pointing a thumb at the river behind him, ‘your bit of the river’s just gone past’.
"The Environment Agency lists the riparian rights and duties in England and Wales:[2] These rights include ownership of the land up to the centre of the watercourse – unless it is known to be owned by someone else, right for water to flow onto your land in its natural quantity and quality, right to protect property from flooding, and land from erosion (but subject to approval by the Agency), right to fish in the watercourse – however this right may be sold or leased, and a fisherman must have a valid Environment Agency rod licence. They also include the right to acquire accretion and the right to boomage.
Duties arising from this model include the duty to pass on the flow of water without obstruction, pollution or diversion affecting the rights of others. To maintain the bed and banks of the watercourse and to clear any debris, whether natural or man-made, to keep any culverts, rubbish screens, weirs and mill gates clear of debris. To be responsible for protection of your land from flooding, and to not cause any obstructions – either temporary or permanent – that would prevent the free passage of fish. To accept flood flows, even if caused by inadequate capacity downstream although there is no duty to improve the drainage capacity of a watercourse."Replies: @Anonymous
Many of the same problems exist with oil rights. I can be over a huge pool of oil that extends thousands of acres. When I pump I suck oil out of MY land, but Mother Nature equalizes things by filling my oil back in from my neighbor’s land.
So the law creates (don’t ask me how) oil and gas pools in which nearby landowners are members. This may work fine for a 3000 acre bubble of oil that sells for $1 a gallon, with 20 landowners in the pool, but howinhell do you apply the same rules to a 10,000,000 acre bubble [aquifer] of water that sells for $.005 per gallon with 10,000,000 landowners in the pool? The bookkeeping would be worse than Obamacare.
All you need to do is…
Solar Powered desalination:
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/01/22/worlds-largest-solar-powered-desalination-plant-under-way/
Or this…. http://cleantechnica.com/2010/12/04/new-low-energy-water-treatment-purifies-desalinates-and-makes-hydrogen-too/
Alfalfa is an interesting crop. It is desireable because it grows year round in California, and can grow for many seasons before being reseeded. Most of it is used for dairy production, and it contains relatively high levels of protein compared to grasses that are used for hay.
It also hits a sweet spot because it’s production is not terribly labor intensive. One man, a tractor and a few implements is all you need to bring in a hay crop. Moreover, irrigated alfalfa in an arid climate does not suffer from the biggest problem confronting hay production (besides insects), and that is rain when you have cut a field to dry. Rain delays baling, can at a minimum reduce the quality of the hay or destroy the cutting.
A libertarian would say that alfalfa production is high because dairy production is subsidized by the government. This is similar to the relationship between ethanol and corn in the Midwest.
Most agricultural policies are concerned with crops that are relatively capital intensive, vs labor intensive. When you look at sugar and corn/ethanol, dairy and others, you get into a web of highly concentrated industrial concerns, that are very politically active in pursuit of industry protection and favorable trade deals.
My understanding of this crystallized while I was at a wedding reception at a country club in Janesville Wi. I was chatting with a prosperous farmer about the recent closing of the GM Janesville assembly and the negative impact it was having on the community. He and I both agreed that NAFTA had been part of the reason for the decline, yet he was all for NAFTA, as was his fellow club member congressman Paul Ryan because it had opened up export markets for agriculture.
This helped me to understand that the coalition that has enacted NAFTA and other trade deals was the monied finance class including cheap importers like Walmart, and the capital and land owners of agribusiness. The battle between the lords against the commoners continues on as it did in England 500 years ago. California’s water problem is rooted in this power imbalance and results in there being insufficient water for municipalities. Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. This is a strange outcome of private rights choking off water even though it was the government that built the water projects.
The nation’s rising income inequality is also partially caused by the trade and immigration policies enacted due to the influence of these groups.
So given that you said Palm Springs had its water locked in for the next century, I thought I would indulge my favorite hobby and check out the high dollar real estate there.
Jeez, what a hell hole that place is!! How can people live in those shacks? Like this one here on Zillow (Just how can people make do on less than 11,000 sq feet?):
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/72743-Clancy-Ln-Rancho-Mirage-CA-92270/18070006_zpid/
“6 beds 8 baths 10,495 sqft
FOR SALE
$6,250,000
Zestimate®: $4,113,717
EST. MORTGAGE
$23,369/mo
Magnificent Mediterranean Estate on over 3 acres of manicured, park-like grounds featuring a 3 hole golf course, sunken north- south lighted tennis court and a resort style pool which is embraced by the mountains and adorned with a swim up wet bar. This estate defines luxury in a refined Las Vegas style environment set in a lush desert background. From the expansive living room with its soaring rotunda style ceiling, to the chef’s kitchen suitable for the Julia Child” in you. The Master suite has two wonderfully appointed baths with custom closets and a unique one of a kind marble fireplace as well a separate owner’s entertainment room. A wing of this estate is devoted to a fully self-contained guest quarters, And by self-contained we mean it’s own kitchen, laundry room and living room with another one of a kind marble fireplace. Also included is a free standing entertainment house overlooking pool that has a beautiful country club style wet bar. ”
The Zendestimate is what Zillow thinks the place is worth using their estimation algorithm. So they think this shithole is worth only 4.1 million.
It has 99 photos and in 6 plus years of looking at lux houses I have never seen an ad with 99 photos. 45-50 is sort of way higher than normal. The first 21 photos are of the grounds, the first photo being of the “resort style” pool, then the next 20 being of the very green and lush front yard with the 3 hole golf course and the small lake with two fountains in it. Most houses don’t have 20 different things like a room or a feature to take a photo, much less 20 photos not even getting you into the front door yet.
I mean really. Fuck a bunch of alfalfa. Let those cows eat cake.
Where is industry on that chart? In most states the 2nd biggest user after agriculture, as I recall.
B) Your lawn is a stupid use, but you're using per-capita $20 worth of water to do it, so if we set up a market, you could go pay off some farmer not to grow $20 worth of alfalfa and we'll call it a day. Even with golf courses, I worked at an 18-hole golf course in Michigan, and we used 2 Acre-Feet/year. Now, as Steve is saying, Palm Springs is a bit much, so let's say I'm off by a factor of 10. 20 AF * 123 golf courses = 2460 AF/year. Even if I'm off by a factor of 100, that's .024 MAF per year. I'm not really sure that, in the statewide scheme of things, that's an amount that is going to matter.
That fact always reminds me of a classic little cartoon I first circa 1973, featuring that leftist Antipodean reluctant settler in Britain - Murray Ball's incomparable 'Bruce the Barbarian'. In the cartoon, Bruce is seen happily minding his own business washing in a river - you see Bruce is a fictious dark ages Antipodean invader from New Zealand - yes I know it's nonsense - squatting in a Romano-Britain run by one Emperor 'Tedius Heath' - now you can say why I'm fixated.
Anyhow, Bruce is happily wallowing in the river, when along comes an archetypal English toff character. 'I say, my man, get out of that damned river at once! What the Hell do you think you are doing in my property?'
'But, surely, you can't own a river?'
'Yes' I damn well can under the laws of this country, now GET OUT!'
So, in the next frame, a naked Bruce climbs out and stands by the river bank.
'OK ,chief' says Bruce to the landowner, pointing a thumb at the river behind him, 'your bit of the river's just gone past'.Replies: @dearieme
“Believe it or not, in the UK some of the remaining feudal lords actually claim ownership of rivers”: “not” is much the wiser course of action. What twaddle. And yet WKPD explains for the hard-of-understanding:
“The Environment Agency lists the riparian rights and duties in England and Wales:[2] These rights include ownership of the land up to the centre of the watercourse – unless it is known to be owned by someone else, right for water to flow onto your land in its natural quantity and quality, right to protect property from flooding, and land from erosion (but subject to approval by the Agency), right to fish in the watercourse – however this right may be sold or leased, and a fisherman must have a valid Environment Agency rod licence. They also include the right to acquire accretion and the right to boomage.
Duties arising from this model include the duty to pass on the flow of water without obstruction, pollution or diversion affecting the rights of others. To maintain the bed and banks of the watercourse and to clear any debris, whether natural or man-made, to keep any culverts, rubbish screens, weirs and mill gates clear of debris. To be responsible for protection of your land from flooding, and to not cause any obstructions – either temporary or permanent – that would prevent the free passage of fish. To accept flood flows, even if caused by inadequate capacity downstream although there is no duty to improve the drainage capacity of a watercourse.”
The billionaire investor Jim Rogers was asked about water as an investable resource. He said ‘you don’t want to own it’ because you will be hated or even killed. That there is an easily tapped strain in men that water, like the air we breathe, is a god given resource no one can control. Look at what is happening in Detroit and other cities when a municipal government attempts to force payment of delinquent water bills by disconnecting people from the water main. The UN has gotten involved and called access to clean water a ‘human right’!
Of course, in the west people do own water rights and in a time of increasing shortage the system that grew up when water was abundant may no longer work. It certainly is going to generate conflict when an outfit like Blue Diamond asserts its ‘rights’ to cheap water to grow almonds it then profitably exports to Asia while people in California’s cities are told to limit their shower time and tear up their lawns and shrubbery they may have paid a fortune to create.
It’s at the left as industrial and commercial at 2.4M acre-feet. Slightly more than the almond crop uses.
Just declare the owners of land over the aquifer the collective owners of the milkshake. Apportion shares in the new water-rights venture according to square footage above aquifer boundaries. Let the market bid for the right to pump x water and use the income to pay dividends.
Big Bill, bookkeeping would be indistinguishable from any decent-sized corporation.
I know of historical situations where propertarian solutions work well, like the Japanese samurai and their government bonds. Are there examples where they failed? State privatization schemes aren’t the same: because in the marketing of state (ie no one’s) property, the results deeply depend on that state’s capabilities (eg Scandinavian privatization worked well, Soviet did not). In the Japanese and hypothetical aquifer examples, we’re talking about individuals holding and protecting their rights, just exchanging one fuzzy, archaic set of rights for a defined, modern set of rights.
When this whole mess was starting I saw a great piece on how that alfalfa is not used here in the US, but sent to China/Asia on ships that would otherwise be empty on the return trip. So don’t go digging into campaign donations from Asia. This wasn’t what I saw, but explains it.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140123-colorado-river-water-alfalfa-hay-farming-export-asia/
The Daily Caller had an article all about some “libertarian environmentalist” group whose economists came up with the solution of taxing organic produce….????
Their beef with organic produce was the regulation against GMOs. GMOs can be made to use less water so traditional produce is bad and deserving of punitive taxation was the reasoning.
Either an unholy child of liberals and libertarians or a Monsanto front group, but a jump the shark moment in the water wars regardless.
Related to the topic:
http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2003/11/la_is_not_a_des.php
http://www.boomcalifornia.com/2013/10/myth-of-a-desert-metropolis/
What you’re talking about is a tragedy of the commons problem. Markets can’t solve those.
The market solves the problem.
Unless you believe in commons.
What every one owns ( the commons ) has no cost to anyone.
What is owned has an increasing marginal cost to use ... the first one is cheap the last one is infinitely valuable.
Use it till it's gone.
Then blame the evil that is man for not sacrificing his interest in the commons to yours.
Elephants, salt water fish, aquifers the math is the same for each. What is common has no cost to anyone to use the last elephant, the last Tuna, the last drop.
What is owned is valued and conserved and maintained. What is rented is paid for per use. What is common has no value, is not conserved and is not maintained without force and discrimination.
Do away with "The Commons."Replies: @ben tillman
It’s a subset of urban use.
Urban use is 9 MAF (Million Acre-feet). Residential is 2.8, lawns are 3.8, industry is 2.4.
Agriculture is 34 MAF, and alfalfa produces less than a billion dollars worth of product on 5.3 MAF of that (~$160/AF). Hence why pretty much everyone with a brain is saying:
A) Your toilet does not matter.
B) Your lawn is a stupid use, but you’re using per-capita $20 worth of water to do it, so if we set up a market, you could go pay off some farmer not to grow $20 worth of alfalfa and we’ll call it a day.
Even with golf courses, I worked at an 18-hole golf course in Michigan, and we used 2 Acre-Feet/year. Now, as Steve is saying, Palm Springs is a bit much, so let’s say I’m off by a factor of 10. 20 AF * 123 golf courses = 2460 AF/year. Even if I’m off by a factor of 100, that’s .024 MAF per year.
I’m not really sure that, in the statewide scheme of things, that’s an amount that is going to matter.
Do away with the commons.
The market solves the problem.
Unless you believe in commons.
What every one owns ( the commons ) has no cost to anyone.
What is owned has an increasing marginal cost to use … the first one is cheap the last one is infinitely valuable.
Use it till it’s gone.
Then blame the evil that is man for not sacrificing his interest in the commons to yours.
Elephants, salt water fish, aquifers the math is the same for each. What is common has no cost to anyone to use the last elephant, the last Tuna, the last drop.
What is owned is valued and conserved and maintained. What is rented is paid for per use. What is common has no value, is not conserved and is not maintained without force and discrimination.
Do away with “The Commons.”
I did not realize they were shipping huge quantities of alfafa to Asia. So really, this is more like the landlords shipping out food from Ireland during the potato famine!
Those golf courses ought to be banned if they aren’t using grey water the way we are doing it in the Antelope Valley. But Palm Springs is full of monied people who can afford high priced lawyers who can tie up the city and state for decades. So they do as they please.
And in the meantime that aquifer that took many centuries too charge is being pissed away on something totally frivolous.
In regards to Alfalfa, that is one of the worst nasty water guzzling crops out there. It needs to be stopped along with rice and almond growing. But as long as the growers have what amounts to subsidized water with no limits, we’re getting screwed.
It also makes a mockery of water conservation by residents since we’re not the major users of it at about 20% compared to farming at 80%. As long as they are not required to cut water usage, especially among those who are growing the water guzzling crops, it accomplishes little.
Long term it will only serve to piss off residents who will then pressure the pols to go after the water guzzlers in the farming community.
This may be OK for the aquifer, but most of California water is from river diversions. The best solution is to tax irrigated agricultural production or water usage at a level until it becomes more profitable for the industry to sell water than grow crops. The trick is how to repeal or reduce the tax after the drought is over, although water authorities might not buy water at any once their current alloted supply becomes available.
Like Steve wrote: Ground water tends to be an ambiguously shared resource, so customary restrictions on how much of it you can use evolve. …[Y]ou can also see why a lot of people find economists’ constant calls for “reform” to be ominous. The economists seldom understand the local reasons why the current awkward system is in place, so one common outcome of modernization and rationalization is an oligopolization process in which we wind up with a tiny number of winner-take-all owners of resources.
(I don’t know why Ron Unz’ editor is making this all uppper case?!?
The issue of water rights in Chinatown was as fascinating to me as the issue of parental rights. I find the first half hour or so of this movie mesmerizing.
Jeez, what a hell hole that place is!! How can people live in those shacks? Like this one here on Zillow (Just how can people make do on less than 11,000 sq feet?):
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/72743-Clancy-Ln-Rancho-Mirage-CA-92270/18070006_zpid/
"6 beds 8 baths 10,495 sqft
FOR SALE
$6,250,000
Zestimate®: $4,113,717
EST. MORTGAGE
$23,369/mo
Magnificent Mediterranean Estate on over 3 acres of manicured, park-like grounds featuring a 3 hole golf course, sunken north- south lighted tennis court and a resort style pool which is embraced by the mountains and adorned with a swim up wet bar. This estate defines luxury in a refined Las Vegas style environment set in a lush desert background. From the expansive living room with its soaring rotunda style ceiling, to the chef's kitchen suitable for the Julia Child'' in you. The Master suite has two wonderfully appointed baths with custom closets and a unique one of a kind marble fireplace as well a separate owner's entertainment room. A wing of this estate is devoted to a fully self-contained guest quarters, And by self-contained we mean it's own kitchen, laundry room and living room with another one of a kind marble fireplace. Also included is a free standing entertainment house overlooking pool that has a beautiful country club style wet bar. "
The Zendestimate is what Zillow thinks the place is worth using their estimation algorithm. So they think this shithole is worth only 4.1 million.
It has 99 photos and in 6 plus years of looking at lux houses I have never seen an ad with 99 photos. 45-50 is sort of way higher than normal. The first 21 photos are of the grounds, the first photo being of the "resort style" pool, then the next 20 being of the very green and lush front yard with the 3 hole golf course and the small lake with two fountains in it. Most houses don't have 20 different things like a room or a feature to take a photo, much less 20 photos not even getting you into the front door yet.
I mean really. Fuck a bunch of alfalfa. Let those cows eat cake.Replies: @Desiderius
That’s not a phrase you see every day.
Of course, in the west people do own water rights and in a time of increasing shortage the system that grew up when water was abundant may no longer work. It certainly is going to generate conflict when an outfit like Blue Diamond asserts its 'rights' to cheap water to grow almonds it then profitably exports to Asia while people in California's cities are told to limit their shower time and tear up their lawns and shrubbery they may have paid a fortune to create.Replies: @Desiderius, @EriK
If corporations want to continue to be considered persons, they’ll need to figure out how to act more humane.
Note the 2.3% for cotton. There is an area of America where cotton can be grown without irrigation. It was largely abandoned long ago because cotton takes a lot out of the soil and is subject to a lot of pests. But now with fertilizers and pesticides….
Note cotton is a “support” crop, so after subsidizing the water to grow it, the government will buy(tax money) it up so that we can pay more for cotton goods.
"The Environment Agency lists the riparian rights and duties in England and Wales:[2] These rights include ownership of the land up to the centre of the watercourse – unless it is known to be owned by someone else, right for water to flow onto your land in its natural quantity and quality, right to protect property from flooding, and land from erosion (but subject to approval by the Agency), right to fish in the watercourse – however this right may be sold or leased, and a fisherman must have a valid Environment Agency rod licence. They also include the right to acquire accretion and the right to boomage.
Duties arising from this model include the duty to pass on the flow of water without obstruction, pollution or diversion affecting the rights of others. To maintain the bed and banks of the watercourse and to clear any debris, whether natural or man-made, to keep any culverts, rubbish screens, weirs and mill gates clear of debris. To be responsible for protection of your land from flooding, and to not cause any obstructions – either temporary or permanent – that would prevent the free passage of fish. To accept flood flows, even if caused by inadequate capacity downstream although there is no duty to improve the drainage capacity of a watercourse."Replies: @Anonymous
Well, I well remember an incident, many, many moons ago now, I hasten to add in which a school boy spotted a rare and precious bronze age shield concealed in a river bed. The boy claimed ‘treasure trove’ on the shield. Well, the ‘owner’ of the river, a real Lord Tom Noddy type of ancient Norman descent, this was in Lancashire or some sorts, was rather a bad sport and sued the boy for ownership of the shield on the grounds or rather river beds, that the shield was found in ‘his’ rivet.
Timing may not be everything, but it’s something… I’d even say crucial. What I mean is that there is the proper time for rationalization and efficiency, and then there is the time for “small is beautiful” (or as we Catholics say, for “subsidiarity”).
In a developing society, some measure of centralization and commonality are necessary, as chaos can put a serious bottleneck on development. But then at some point in economic and social development after a “takeoff,” such uniformity can throttle innovation and further development.
That is why economic development or, more broadly speaking, governance is not a science but a combination of art and science. It requires not merely rational, smart elites/rulers, but wise ones. I suppose then the next question is how we inculcate wise elites.
Yes, Western State Water Law is a labyrinthine creation, partly resulting from collision of Anglo-Saxon common law principles evolved in a wet climate, which worked fine, until WASPs hit the Great American Desert (i.e. the high plains and the True West).
But I assume in a democracy, in a long drought, water can be made to flow to the voters, through condemnation power if no other means avail.
Off Topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/05/20/the-benefits-and-pressures-of-being-a-young-genius/black-and-hispanic-child-prodigies-are-often-neglected-in-scholarship
“These students, particularly black and Hispanic students, are often overlooked and neglected in scholarship and discourse on geniuses and prodigies. This must change; no racial group or economic class is more capable than another. ”
This doesn’t seem to be borne out by my childhood experience of being a bright kid growing up in a rural area.
Is there any possible way this could be true? Do black and hispanic genius kids (who live mostly within major metro areas) get overlooked in favor of white genius kids (who live disproportionately far from major metro areas)? Certainly Asians who combine high ability with metro living are able to get their geniuses into classes that suit them.
The NY Daily News is reporting that Steve-favorite Julian Castro is the lock for Hillary’s VP.
“They don’t have a second option, because he is the superior candidate considering his record, personality, demeanor, and Latin heritage,” Cisnero added.”
Personally speaking, since currently Black votes are more valuable to Democrats than Hispanic vote, I dont' think any Democrats will have Hispanic running mate for this election. Symbolism of rise of Hispanics and decline of Blacks in Democratic hierarchy would be too obvious and viewed too negatively by black voters. Better to wait until next election if you are Democrats.Replies: @Anonymous, @Busby
An interesting article on the current state of water “markets” in California:
http://grist.org/food/california-has-a-real-water-market-but-its-not-exactly-liquid
OT: Thomas Crown or another BPL Affirmative Action clown?
Rembrandt, Durer art treasures lost from Boston Public Library.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/05/boston_public_library_official_put_on_leave_in_wake_of_missingReplies: @Anonymous
Fog up the mirrors.
http://www.umsl.edu/~sauterv/…/bucky.html
University of Missouri–St. Louis
In addition to being a successful architect and inventor, R Buckminster Fuller … a one piece prefabricated unit with fogging shower heads to conserve water. … Fuller taught “World Planning” while teaching at the Southern Illinois University.
http://www.magicgatebg.com/…/Macmillan%20Encyclopedia%20of%20Energy…
by passing the Energy Policy and Conservation Act. This legislation …… piece aluminum unit containing a “fog gun”—an economical showerhead using a mixture of 90 per- cent air and 10 percent water. Fuller’s Dymaxion car ran on three …
El Nino on the way: http://www.weatherwest.com/archives/3124
NAFTA gets beat up a lot around here. Just curious, do you know what countries it involved and what it actually did (without looking it up)?
He expressed astonishment that Bush aides had casually told him they had informally promised the Mexicans that the U.S. would tolerate increased illegal immigration to accommodate the Mexican farm laborers who would be thrown off the land if Mexico gave up its corn price supports, which U.S. agribusiness demanded.
http://www.vdare.com/articles/fast-tracking-tpp-the-danger-of-informal-immigration-deals-and-the-need-for-treason-trials
Of course, in the west people do own water rights and in a time of increasing shortage the system that grew up when water was abundant may no longer work. It certainly is going to generate conflict when an outfit like Blue Diamond asserts its 'rights' to cheap water to grow almonds it then profitably exports to Asia while people in California's cities are told to limit their shower time and tear up their lawns and shrubbery they may have paid a fortune to create.Replies: @Desiderius, @EriK
Jim Rogers is a loon. A rich loon, but no billionaire.
This (free to watch) episode of Green Acres deals with water rights:
S2Ep2 Water, Water Everywhere
http://www.hulu.com/watch/140850
The large beast in the room here is population growth (immigration cough) and economic growth, both requiring more water.
Even if agriculture gives up all its water, growth will end at some point.
In an effort to contribute something worthwhile, I checked Wikipedia and found that Wyoming, the lowest population state, had an estimated population in 2014 of 584,153. Wyoming gets picked on for its small population but there are half a dozen other states with populations of less than a million people. Riverside County, where the Palm Springs/ Palm Desert/ Indigo cluster of towns is located, has an estimated population of 2,329,271. Most of these people live in the western portion, on the other side of the mountains, but the eastern, desert portion probably has a population that exceeds that of Wyoming.
So this area becomes a state, and nothing but the federal government can make them give up their water to the people of LA.
Of course it isn’t a state, and under the Constitution would need the approval of the California state legislature to become a state, but its a point in how in an aging polity these sorts of historical accidents and legalistic considerations come into play.
The answer to this is probably the sort of socialism the American right and center is always so up in arms against.
The state operates a dedicated water fund, funded by a tax on income and/ or wealth. The fund buys water futures in rainy years, and actually uses them in dry years. The taxes would hit the wealthier farmers, gulf course operations, and wealthier people in the dryer states of the state, but not hit whatever small farmers are left, who might even benefit from the income from the purchase of water futures. And this is basically the scheme Joseph operated in Egypt in the Old Testament, without the fancy futures stuff (but you could just buy water and physically store it someplace too).
In California, you have the right to extract a reasonable amount of water from below your land. The key of course is the word reasonable.
I live in the southern end of Palm Springs, in Indian Canyon. Runoff, from Santa Rosa and Santa Jacinta snows and rains, flow down the canyon wash and dives into the aquifer. Similarly, the Whitewater from San Gorgonio, which can be raging, disappears along 111. All runoff into the valley dives into the aquifer.
The last few years haven’t been so good for snow or rainfall, but if the el nino strengthens this summer, we could have a wet winter coming up.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/05/20/the-benefits-and-pressures-of-being-a-young-genius/black-and-hispanic-child-prodigies-are-often-neglected-in-scholarship
"These students, particularly black and Hispanic students, are often overlooked and neglected in scholarship and discourse on geniuses and prodigies. This must change; no racial group or economic class is more capable than another. "
This doesn't seem to be borne out by my childhood experience of being a bright kid growing up in a rural area.
Is there any possible way this could be true? Do black and hispanic genius kids (who live mostly within major metro areas) get overlooked in favor of white genius kids (who live disproportionately far from major metro areas)? Certainly Asians who combine high ability with metro living are able to get their geniuses into classes that suit them.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dew
I volunteered for awhile for a charity that gave free rides to nice private schools to poor kids from the slums of Chicago. We were happy to find a black kid from a public school who scored at the 75th percentile on the statewide test. I think we found one who scored in the upper 90s.
Walter Annenberg used over 100 million gallons of nonrenewable water per year for his private golf course. Be sure to turn off the water while you brush kids.
Forget about the golf courses-California produces rice.
http://californiaagriculture.ucanr.edu/landingpage.cfm?article=ca.v047n03p5&fulltext=yes
Perfect for the Death Valley monsoon season.
Those two photos of lush golf courses surrounded by desert reminded me of the fictional faux French chateau built in the California desert by the villian in Moonraker:
That was a replica of a real French chateau where I’m sure they shot the real exterior shots for Moonraker and then I guess they shot the interior scenes on a soundstage at Pinewood Studios near London. So you’d have a replica interior in London filling in for a really real French chateau interior, which was itself filling in for a fictional California replica of the original real chateau. It’s really quite trippy and mind-bending if one thinks about it too long.
"They don't have a second option, because he is the superior candidate considering his record, personality, demeanor, and Latin heritage," Cisnero added."Replies: @Anon
If true, they are going to lose black vote. African Americans never really embraced Hillary and if her running mate is Hispanic, then it’s almost certain sizable of them will choose not to vote.
Personally speaking, since currently Black votes are more valuable to Democrats than Hispanic vote, I dont’ think any Democrats will have Hispanic running mate for this election. Symbolism of rise of Hispanics and decline of Blacks in Democratic hierarchy would be too obvious and viewed too negatively by black voters. Better to wait until next election if you are Democrats.
Does Hill coming out strongly for amnesty, hiring an illegal alien (with one of Obama's work permits) to work on her campaign, and the possibility of choosing Castro as VP give anyone a clue? I mean, if you're playing the Raiders and they've already done ten endzone dances so far, isn't that a bit of a clue that you're doing things wrong?
If leading amnesty opponents were competent at their job descriptions, wouldn't Obama be too afraid to push two amnesties? Wouldn't Hillary have been too afraid to hire an illegal alien? If you're tired of the Raiders doing endzone dances, then pressure leading amnesty opponents to finally do their jobs.
Regarding the post, the answer to "you do have to admit that Annenberg’s personal course looks better than the surrounding wasteland of dirt and creosote bushes" is no. Even if it was a public park it would look horrible in the setting it's in. As a public park in a naturally-green environment it would look good. The desert is a beautiful place all by its own.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Jesusland has nothing on the New York press when it comes to magical thinking.
I needed a laugh, and this delivered.
going back to pat brown’s vision of the future would fix jerry’s brown’s present situation.
Personally speaking, since currently Black votes are more valuable to Democrats than Hispanic vote, I dont' think any Democrats will have Hispanic running mate for this election. Symbolism of rise of Hispanics and decline of Blacks in Democratic hierarchy would be too obvious and viewed too negatively by black voters. Better to wait until next election if you are Democrats.Replies: @Anonymous, @Busby
At the end of the day, I’m pretty sure blacks will turn out for Hill no matter who she chooses as VP. The Dems seem to be pretty good at racializing things to their advantage. That will be assisted by the horribleness of the GOP candidate (whoever it is).
Does Hill coming out strongly for amnesty, hiring an illegal alien (with one of Obama’s work permits) to work on her campaign, and the possibility of choosing Castro as VP give anyone a clue? I mean, if you’re playing the Raiders and they’ve already done ten endzone dances so far, isn’t that a bit of a clue that you’re doing things wrong?
If leading amnesty opponents were competent at their job descriptions, wouldn’t Obama be too afraid to push two amnesties? Wouldn’t Hillary have been too afraid to hire an illegal alien? If you’re tired of the Raiders doing endzone dances, then pressure leading amnesty opponents to finally do their jobs.
Regarding the post, the answer to “you do have to admit that Annenberg’s personal course looks better than the surrounding wasteland of dirt and creosote bushes” is no. Even if it was a public park it would look horrible in the setting it’s in. As a public park in a naturally-green environment it would look good. The desert is a beautiful place all by its own.
No, only with Pat Brown’s demographics.
Does Hill coming out strongly for amnesty, hiring an illegal alien (with one of Obama's work permits) to work on her campaign, and the possibility of choosing Castro as VP give anyone a clue? I mean, if you're playing the Raiders and they've already done ten endzone dances so far, isn't that a bit of a clue that you're doing things wrong?
If leading amnesty opponents were competent at their job descriptions, wouldn't Obama be too afraid to push two amnesties? Wouldn't Hillary have been too afraid to hire an illegal alien? If you're tired of the Raiders doing endzone dances, then pressure leading amnesty opponents to finally do their jobs.
Regarding the post, the answer to "you do have to admit that Annenberg’s personal course looks better than the surrounding wasteland of dirt and creosote bushes" is no. Even if it was a public park it would look horrible in the setting it's in. As a public park in a naturally-green environment it would look good. The desert is a beautiful place all by its own.Replies: @Steve Sailer
“The desert is a beautiful place all by its own.”
A little desert goes a long way and there’s a lot of desert out there.
If you get tired of the heat in Palm Springs, take the tram to the top of the mountain and go skiing. I would think that runoff has a lot to do with Palm Springs water riches. In fact, I believe that the lower tram station has suffered damage from flash floods.
From 29 Palms, you can see skiers at Palm Springs and Big Bear with low powered binocs (well, my teenage eyes of the 80’s could anyway). If you were to go and sample the nightlife of Palm Springs, I advise that you keep your wits about you; the place is packed with freaks and perverts.
Reminds me of the line from “Lawrence of Arabia,” uttered by Prince Feisal: “I think you are another of these desert-loving English: Doughty, Stanhope, Gordon of Khartoum. No Arab loves the desert. We love water and green trees, there is nothing in the desert. No man needs nothing.”
The edge of the ocean is more attractive to my tastes.Replies: @Twinkie, @RT Rider
Personally speaking, since currently Black votes are more valuable to Democrats than Hispanic vote, I dont' think any Democrats will have Hispanic running mate for this election. Symbolism of rise of Hispanics and decline of Blacks in Democratic hierarchy would be too obvious and viewed too negatively by black voters. Better to wait until next election if you are Democrats.Replies: @Anonymous, @Busby
Cory Booker
Completely OT:
There are some articles up about a protest in Missouri a few days ago at the office of some group that was distributing Soros money to Ferguson protestors because not all the protesters got paid as much as they had been promised.
One group, MAU, did get a bunch of cash though, so was justifying it on facebook, while blaming the leftist white guy who had promised others more cash. Or something.
Right out of Tom Wolfe.
http://www.weaselzippers.us/223908-ferguson-protesters-protest-not-getting-their-checks-for-protesting-from-their-organizers-list-of-payouts-to-protesters/
http://www.weaselzippers.us/224034-more-proof-of-paid-protesters-ad-asking-for-protesters-to-travel-to-protest-list-of-payouts-to-ferguson-protest-organizers/
What do you do with the salts and the very salty water that results from the process? Dumping it back in the ocean, more concentrated, has risks.
> Dumping it back in the ocean, more concentrated, has risks.<
ok nuke power plants in the central valley of ca moving water from bc/washington/oregon south ?
win win no?
>What do you do with the salts and the very salty water that results from the process? Dumping it back in the ocean, more concentrated, has risks.<
maybe find use for it? "has risks" sounds like "ididntdonuthings"
How many ppm or ppb would be the appropriate metric or, given the site golf theme, bogey?
Yes..
>No, only with Pat Brown’s demographics.<
how high are the iq's in silicon valley? water is kind of basic no?
the “clinton’s may have a high iq” but i find their wisdom and knowledge wanting.
@Ed
“Of course it isn’t a state, and under the Constitution would need the approval of the California state legislature to become a state, but its a point in how in an aging polity these sorts of historical accidents and legalistic considerations come into play.”
It’s sort of an odd thing if you think about it, that a state can make another state by itself without approval from other states. I mean Alaska and Hawaii went thru a process to be states, why should that be any different? I guess that is how the Dakota territory formed two states even though it was originally one territory.
Mr. Sailor, it’s just Chinatown.
Southern California’s deserts are less attractive than Arizona and Utah’s.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/05/20/the-benefits-and-pressures-of-being-a-young-genius/black-and-hispanic-child-prodigies-are-often-neglected-in-scholarship
"These students, particularly black and Hispanic students, are often overlooked and neglected in scholarship and discourse on geniuses and prodigies. This must change; no racial group or economic class is more capable than another. "
This doesn't seem to be borne out by my childhood experience of being a bright kid growing up in a rural area.
Is there any possible way this could be true? Do black and hispanic genius kids (who live mostly within major metro areas) get overlooked in favor of white genius kids (who live disproportionately far from major metro areas)? Certainly Asians who combine high ability with metro living are able to get their geniuses into classes that suit them.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dew
“These students, particularly black and Hispanic students, are often overlooked and neglected in scholarship and discourse on geniuses and prodigies.”
Huh? Come on now NYT. The black and Hispanic student geniuses are still well portrayed as the representatives of their racial group as they have for decades, even more so now. Most teachers gush about them and keep quiet about the true issues facing majority black/Latino schools.
But, yeah, I grew up on the edge of the desert and it’s not that exciting to me, because there’s so much of it. I like tree-lined canyons and north-facing forested slopes. A couple of years ago I visited a genuine oasis about 20 miles east of Palm Springs and that was great. But most of the desert in California … eh …
The edge of the ocean is more attractive to my tastes.
The Judean desert, however... Especially the monasteries. They evoke powerful feelings in me and fill me with forebodings of the Apocalypse (yet also very peaceful in a strange way). But maybe that's because I am a Christian.
Indian Canyon, the Agua Caliente Tribe's reservation, is open to the public for a fee, and is well worth the admission. It's comprised of miles of palm tree lined streams going south and up to Santa Rosa mountain (Palm Canyon), and west and up the San Jacinto mountain (Andreas Canyon). Another scenic and famous canyon is Tahquitz - also part of the reserve - but located more centrally in Palm Springs.
“Rain delays baling, can at a minimum reduce the quality of the hay or destroy the cutting.”
Rain on hay that has been cut and not bailed is dangerous, as the baled hay can then molder and get hot enough to burst into flame:
“…Hay baled before it is fully dry can produce enough heat to start a fire. Haystacks produce internal heat due to bacterial fermentation. If hay is stacked with wet grass, the heat produced can be sufficient to ignite the hay…
…Farmers have to be careful about moisture levels to avoid spontaneous combustion, which is a leading cause of haystack fires.
…Combustion problems typically occur within five days to seven days of baling. A bale cooler than 120 °F (49 °C) is in little danger, bales between 120 and 140 °F (49 and 60 °C) need to be removed from a barn or structure and separated so that they can cool off. If the temperature of a bale exceeds more than 140 °F (60 °C), it can combust…”
And:
“Preventing Fires in Baled Hay and Straw”.
Folk wisdom has some uses, learned in times when personal stakes were on the line routinely. If your crop failed, you might die. No, I don't mean eating hay, but any number of other crops, although your livestock would sure miss it.
Now, after a few generations of industrialization, average people don't seem have as much connection to the food growing process or potential risks.
I can’t help but wonder how much of the California water problem is politics. Jerry Brown has been pushing a water project that is up there with High Speed Rail in making you wonder about what is going on:
“Jerry Brown’s revised water tunnels plan adds political problems”, The Sacrameto Bee, April 30, 2015:
A good point you surface is market design. I don’t understand much of what I see in the real world about economics and I for sure don’t think the academic economic field and its models have all that much affinity to the real world… but I do think markets can work. I just wonder if it take a tremendous amount of trial and error, during which markets don’t work, to stumble upon workable markets. And that if you explicitly try to design a market, you will probably fail horribly. So maybe there are some places today where markets work well, and a lot where they don’t work at all.
I lived in Phoenix for a year before relocating to the interior of Southern California.
In the High Desert and Low Desert regions of Southern California, which get rainfall comparable to Phoenix, there is no knowledge whatsoever of natural desert landscaping. Green lawns abound, even in the relatively poor High Desert.
In Arizona, despite being a very conservative state, there’s a strong social consensus that people should use natural desert landscaping.
It wasn’t until sometime last year – which my understanding is several years into California’s drought – that the government finally passed some watering restrictions. But other than myself, no one in my subdivision follows them.
Land rights are the key, it is generally the major sticking point for trying to do anything 'smart' or creative with water. One of the reasons for this is that there are some old land rights that aren't written very well. Lots of the land/water rights go all the way back to the King of Spain, and then there is the historic Indian water rights (which are 'new'), and oh goodness 'environmental' water rights, which are very new but the .gov has declared them to be the 'oldest' (snail darters etc), so the amount of confusion and who gets 'priority' gets pretty continuous. Then you have state laws that try to deal with this and then lots of states treat groundwater and surface water differently. It's overwhelming.
Just as an example: The Office of the State Engineer in New Mexico, who is in charge of all water and engineering related activities in the state has more lawyers working for the office than engineers (140 vs 15-20).
I even know a engineer who was fired from public service by a Western Governor (very abruptly I might add) because to he tried to do the right thing for water users, and along the way upset some large political donors, so it's serious business.
Here are the fundamentals of dealing with water in the west: (I can't remember who's quotes these are, I take no credit for them)
Water gets you wet.
Water runs downhill except where it runs uphill towards money.
When it does rain, you get more than you planned.
Droughts are always broken by floods.
Whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
You left out the best one: WC Fields’s don’t drink water– fish fornicate in it.
This raises the question: what if Mr. Annenberg, instead of watering his golf course, just pumped the water out of the ground and sold it to the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power for the 15 million people who live west of the Low Desert?
Much of CA’s well water is dark red. It’s filled with iron manganese. A treatment plant is needed to remove this. It’s potable in a pinch, but you wouldn’t want it coming out of your faucet every day. It’s not big deal to construct these treatment plants, but it doesn’t happen over night either.
The LADWP is incompetent. You live near Coldwater Canyon. They have had construction equipment there for going on what, 5 years by now, trying to replace one broken main.
But I assume in a democracy, in a long drought, water can be made to flow to the voters, through condemnation power if no other means avail.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Kind of like marital law. Anglo-Saxon common law collided with Mexican “community property”, and you got Johnny Carson monologues.
He’s also a good friend and admirer of George Soros.
Rain on hay that has been cut and not bailed is dangerous, as the baled hay can then molder and get hot enough to burst into flame:
"...Hay baled before it is fully dry can produce enough heat to start a fire. Haystacks produce internal heat due to bacterial fermentation. If hay is stacked with wet grass, the heat produced can be sufficient to ignite the hay...
...Farmers have to be careful about moisture levels to avoid spontaneous combustion, which is a leading cause of haystack fires.
...Combustion problems typically occur within five days to seven days of baling. A bale cooler than 120 °F (49 °C) is in little danger, bales between 120 and 140 °F (49 and 60 °C) need to be removed from a barn or structure and separated so that they can cool off. If the temperature of a bale exceeds more than 140 °F (60 °C), it can combust..." And:
"Preventing Fires in Baled Hay and Straw".Replies: @Ivy
Thus, make hay while the sun shines.
Folk wisdom has some uses, learned in times when personal stakes were on the line routinely. If your crop failed, you might die. No, I don’t mean eating hay, but any number of other crops, although your livestock would sure miss it.
Now, after a few generations of industrialization, average people don’t seem have as much connection to the food growing process or potential risks.
Much of CA's well water is dark red. It's filled with iron manganese. A treatment plant is needed to remove this. It's potable in a pinch, but you wouldn't want it coming out of your faucet every day. It's not big deal to construct these treatment plants, but it doesn't happen over night either.
The LADWP is incompetent. You live near Coldwater Canyon. They have had construction equipment there for going on what, 5 years by now, trying to replace one broken main.Replies: @Steve Sailer
They’re still puttering away with major streets all dug up.
As it was explained to me when they started tearing up my neighborhood six or seven years ago, William Mulholland’s “Chinatown” watermain down Coldwater is a century old and they don’t think it will survive the next Big One. So they’re putting in a parallel modern one. But the work is just going on forever.
The LADWP doesn’t know how to do construction. The time-tested way to build something is to hire a consulting engineering firm to design the project. The ENGINEER (this is in all caps in a well written contract) will produce plans and specifications for the work to be done. The OWNER (all caps too) will publish these documents and take bids from construction contractors (the CONTRACTOR) to perform the work. The LADWP tries to do most or all of this in house. They don’t seem to understand what their own role of OWNER is. The OWNER’s job is to the perform the day-to-day operation and maintenance tasks. That’s complicated enough. The rest should be contracted out.
A Black woman in San Francisco nearly beat an elderly Asian woman to death. She is in critical condition at the hospital.
http://kron4.com/2015/05/20/police-seek-suspect-who-seriously-injured-elderly-woman-in-chinatown-area/
If the woman who beat the Asian granny had been White instead of Black, the majority Democrat voting Asian American community would have been livid and demanded that it be classified as a hate crime.
Asian Americans turn a blind eye to Black on Asian crimes because Asian Americans do not want any cracks in the KKK Crazy Glue Coalition. Asian Americans hate White people a lot more than they hate Black on Asian violence.
From 29 Palms, you can see skiers at Palm Springs and Big Bear with low powered binocs (well, my teenage eyes of the 80's could anyway). If you were to go and sample the nightlife of Palm Springs, I advise that you keep your wits about you; the place is packed with freaks and perverts.Replies: @Lot
Palm Springs proper is the top retirement town for affluent gay males.
Mañana for your new water main ever being finished. “Don’t kill the job” is the way some public works construction is done. But there is something you can do about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Down
The edge of the ocean is more attractive to my tastes.Replies: @Twinkie, @RT Rider
I never found the California deserts beautiful either. Even the deserts in the Southwest, while geologically interesting, bore me after a short visit. They just seem, well, sterile.
The Judean desert, however… Especially the monasteries. They evoke powerful feelings in me and fill me with forebodings of the Apocalypse (yet also very peaceful in a strange way). But maybe that’s because I am a Christian.
He worked with Soros about 25 years ago, but I do not know that he likes him or is an admirer. Citation.
You might try to spell his name correctly.
The edge of the ocean is more attractive to my tastes.Replies: @Twinkie, @RT Rider
1000 Palms – part of the Coachella Valley Preservation Reserve.
Indian Canyon, the Agua Caliente Tribe’s reservation, is open to the public for a fee, and is well worth the admission. It’s comprised of miles of palm tree lined streams going south and up to Santa Rosa mountain (Palm Canyon), and west and up the San Jacinto mountain (Andreas Canyon). Another scenic and famous canyon is Tahquitz – also part of the reserve – but located more centrally in Palm Springs.
“the ‘owner’ of the river”: what on earth do you mean by your inverted commas around “owner”? I realise that much of the US has a socialist approach to water law, but personally I prefer private property rights under the law of the land.
There is not, and never has been, “UK” riparian law. However, under the law of England and Wales – see the WKPD article – anyone (you, me or Lord Thingummyjig) can own river bed: all you have to do is buy it, or buy the adjoining land, as the case may be. Easy peasy. Nothing feudal about it.
“of ancient Norman descent”: doubtful. Auberon Waugh once offered a substantial prize for anybody who could demonstrate direct male descent from anyone who “came over with the Conqueror”. Nobody claimed it, almost certainly because nobody could demonstrate it. But lots of families who were ennobled centuries later made fanciful claims to that status. The Lord of your tale is probably one such.
Come to think of it, it’s the US habit of the state owning the river that’s “feudal”, in the sense of being just the attitude that the Conqueror took to his new Kingdom.
Rembrandt, Durer art treasures lost from Boston Public Library.Replies: @Brutusale
The nice white lady in charge of special collections at the BPL was just put on paid leave.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/05/boston_public_library_official_put_on_leave_in_wake_of_missing
Maybe it was just the hot air of blurbery, but I remember being surprised by a glowing testimonial. Of course, that may have been over 15 years ago as well.
Soros and Rogers are not close even if they worked together in the 1970s.
Philosophically, they are poles apart.
Do some Googling.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Wasn’t in Palm Springs that, on such a day, Robert Wells and Mel Tormé wrote The Christmas Song in three quarters of an hour? Wells was just trying to trick himself into feeling cool, and the Velvet Fog saw a song in it.
Yeah it created side agreements like this:
He expressed astonishment that Bush aides had casually told him they had informally promised the Mexicans that the U.S. would tolerate increased illegal immigration to accommodate the Mexican farm laborers who would be thrown off the land if Mexico gave up its corn price supports, which U.S. agribusiness demanded.
http://www.vdare.com/articles/fast-tracking-tpp-the-danger-of-informal-immigration-deals-and-the-need-for-treason-trials
Note cotton is a "support" crop, so after subsidizing the water to grow it, the government will buy(tax money) it up so that we can pay more for cotton goods.Replies: @MarkinLA
There is so much cotton that old clothes are thrown away. It wasn’t too long ago that old cotton cloth was worth recycling. It goes into more cloth or making expensive paper.
There are still ocean salt operations that get their salt from the evaporation of sea water. You could pump it to brine pools and make salt.
What will they do with the salt? Put it on chips i expect!
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/05/boston_public_library_official_put_on_leave_in_wake_of_missingReplies: @Anonymous
Yep, B.A. from Skidmore and an MLS from Indiana. She loses a Rembrandt and Dürer art works and she gets paid leave from her six-figure Boston Public Library job. Meanwhile the cashier at her local Dunkin Donuts in Brookline or Newton gets fired if the drawer is a couple dollars short at the end of the day.
Btw, here’s a picture of her. I’m sure I’ve passed her Prius with an “I’m Ready for Hillary” bumper sticker while driving on Beacon Street.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/article/2014/12/02/susan-glover-wild-ride/
maybe find use for it? "has risks" sounds like "ididntdonuthings"Replies: @Ivy
How about diluting it with some of that handy nearby readily accessible ocean water?
How many ppm or ppb would be the appropriate metric or, given the site golf theme, bogey?
No water? Let zem drink Napa Valley wine.
Gents,
Soros and Rogers are not close even if they worked together in the 1970s.
Philosophically, they are poles apart.
Do some Googling.
It’s amazing the ignorance about law and economics on this subject. You can’t simply take away people’s water rights, unless you’re Jerry Brown. It’s in the 4th Amendment.
Desalinization sounds cool but the cost is too high unless you gouge the ratepayers or the taxpayers. Like alt energy.
The real criminals are the environmentalists and their corrupt lapdog politicians. Increase population, agriculture, build no dams, give the water unconstitutionally to the fish.
It always comes down to rationing my water, raising my water bill, even though I live on top of an aquifer that will outlast a 50 year pure drought.
Cali is then new New York.
THE BIGGER STORY ABOUT WATER–INDIAN LAKE FULL OF URINE, FOAM OVERFLOWING.
Steve, you did not mention the pollution of a fresh water lake used for drinking water in India.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/474713/urine-not-detergent-behind-varthur.html
Soros and Rogers are not close even if they worked together in the 1970s.
Philosophically, they are poles apart.
Do some Googling.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
So are Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia, but that doesn’t keep them from going on vacations together.*
Maybe Rogers was just being a Southern gentleman, or returning a favor– or currying one– but I do remember a warm testimonial to Soros.
And someone above did call Rogers a loon. That would fit Soros as well, if he weren’t really a devil instead.
*With their spouses, you dirty-minded creeps…
Nope, no Prius for her:
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/article/2014/12/02/susan-glover-wild-ride/
The market solves the problem.
Unless you believe in commons.
What every one owns ( the commons ) has no cost to anyone.
What is owned has an increasing marginal cost to use ... the first one is cheap the last one is infinitely valuable.
Use it till it's gone.
Then blame the evil that is man for not sacrificing his interest in the commons to yours.
Elephants, salt water fish, aquifers the math is the same for each. What is common has no cost to anyone to use the last elephant, the last Tuna, the last drop.
What is owned is valued and conserved and maintained. What is rented is paid for per use. What is common has no value, is not conserved and is not maintained without force and discrimination.
Do away with "The Commons."Replies: @ben tillman
Right, and without discrimination, everything is a commons.
The human body’s immune system (whose function is self/non-self discrimination) is designed to prevent the body from becoming a commons.